The way I read this in my head was pure gold, thank you.
Tanks allot Guys, now i knew i dont have to worry about the quiet Signal
Maybe I’m missing something, but I would think we’d want a maximum signal (maximum data) on every channel, and then we would establish our headroom by bringing down the faders, etc.
Maybe in the days of 16 bit audio. With 24 bit, really no point in aiming for ~0dBFS (Mastering excluded)
I was about to post a new topic, but I found this one. I have the same concern about low volumes being record on the daw, I can pump it with a gain without problems, but the waveforms are about to almost not visible. Do I do something wrong?
when you play them… how many db do they hit?
in my case its -22db. Peoples here in this threat say, we should not worry about it. and at my experience so far its not a problem. Just normalise or gainstage it. But in dead it is a bit strange. And i wonder what Electron has to say about it.
You can probably get it higher with velocity, track volume, amp volume… Overdrive if you don’t mind some… Should go higher than -24 but not too high. I recommend googling about professional recording mixing levels, you don’t need to normalize anything that’s around -18 which is usually recommended. It just seems that way to people but it’s not what professional engineers do.
This doesn’t effect the individual track volume when you are tracking to multiple audio tracks from the plug in. They are still very low volume.
This is an issue. I know others will say that you want the audio to be low anyway for mixing (etc, etc) but having waveforms that can barely be seen when they are recorded is a usability issue.
Considering that a huge part of my workflow is editing and manipulating waveforms, it is really annoying when I can’t even see half of them.
Elektron should at least make it an option to have louder volume while routing from the plug-in. This -12db argument seems arbitrary to me.
surely you can either zoom in, or (In most DAWs at least) just turn the actual clips up?
I mean, I get that’s more annoying in your workflow than not having to, but I am pretty sure the way it works currently is design, not a bug.
-12db is kinda close to 0db in a world where you have 144db of dynamic range and close to no noise in the recording.
I mean, think of it this way: if you have eight tracks peaking at -12 all playing at once - you’re already way over 0db on the master channel.
Although you could turn the clips up then use utility (or equivalent) to turn them down again - then you can see them AND mix at the right level…
I just think they come out of the DT at that level so they won’t immediately go over 0db on the master bus - it would be weirder to expect everyone to turn them down surely?
point is I want to have the choice to put the volume down and see the waveform yoo, plus all the other machines gives louder volume, so… wt…
Most DAWs, if not all, have a data zoom option to make waveforms appear bigger. In Ableton it is alt+scroll I think.
Hi Dave, i want to ask a question regrding this statement. Someone i knew explained me that for mastering purposes -6 is preferred. Is there no loss or noise floor problems for example when using analogue gear or microphones?
Also when using Izotope for mastering how do you correct the gain to match commercial standards?
Hi Shake, -6 dB is too loud imho. It’s all about the headroom you need at the master output. There is no real reason to work at -6dB as opposed to -12dB. I work at -12dB on channels, some people work at -18dB even. Noise floor is not a problem as long as you record your hardware and mic at 24bit. The theoretical noise floor at 24bit is -144dB. So that would mean you’d have to listen at ear-deafening levels to hear noise in your recordings caused by that noise floor. It’s the reason why we have 24bit.
Regarding commercial standards: iZotope has this all build in since it’s a mastering suite, but this is why we use a limiter. You’ll boost the volume at the last stage inside iZotope when using the limiter. Usually I’ll set the ceiling to -0.3 or -1 dB and then start adjusting the limiter accordingly. Inside iZotope you can also boost the input gain to get it to a level that makes it easier to work within iZotope and its meters.
So to summarize: You simply bring back the levels to “0” at the last stage when your track is done.
The easiest way to manage this gain staging is to create a template and put a utility / mix tool on each channel. When a you use a mix of hardware and VST’s you’ll notice that VST’s always start very loud. So unless you use presets that are reduced in level, it’s easier to simply set the mix tool at -12dB for that VST.
The opposite is true for using overdrives. You want the signal to go in pretty hot into the overdrive, so you might want to boost the volume of a mic recording that peaks at -12db with +10 dB before it goes into the overdrive VST. Then, if needed use another tool to bring the volume back after that.
Heh, this post become much longer then expected. Hope it helps. Cheers!
this is almost worth upgrading to Live 10 for.