Overbridge for Octa?

t · 2014-03-13T12:34:51.000Z

I’m pretty sure that pushing a number of audio streams through the USB bus requires a pretty significant amount of processing power, especially if you want to do such a thing reliably and at low latencies.

I would not be surprised to find the same microprocessor in the Analog boxes as is being used in the Octa since such a thing makes it much easier to reuse existing firmware code. However, the Octa already does a hell of a lot more processing (8 tracks stereo timestretched sample playback, 16 effects at once, 4 incoming audio channels, (re)sampling of up to 8 stereo streams at once, etc…) than any of the Analog boxes (3 effects and the generation of what’s still a fair number of high resolution control voltages).

So basically, the hardware limitation referred to is probably a matter of not having enough processing power left in the Octa to pull this off.

avantronica · 2014-03-13T12:51:36.000Z

get a grip people

the OT already does a tonne more already than it has any reasonable right to !

things move on, yeah, i’ll sob a bit when OTii comes out but it won’t change jack

be grateful that Elektron nipped this dreaming in the bud early !

Muddler · 2014-03-13T12:57:22.000Z

Haha

Troll

ipassenger · 2014-03-13T13:15:28.000Z

The overbridge announcement felt a bit like the nail in the Octatrack “mk1” coffin. It was pretty obvious it wouldn’t feature on the octatrack, otherwise it would have been included in the promo. Mark 2 just round the corner I think featuring this tech, although as said it might just be not that possible given what the cpu and os are already doing.

I understand their business practices and what they are doing makes sense but I am little disappointed.

I think the machine still has a lot of potential for new ways to mangle the samples and new ways to get creative but I dont think we are going to see much (if any) development now.

subq · 2014-03-13T16:26:51.000Z

I really don’t see how an MKII of anything could be expected in the face of a fresh Analog Keys and Analog Rytm. As much as some individual users may want to see an MKII on some things…I think such a move by the company would be frowned upon. There are complaints about even getting the AK and the AR isn’t even out the door yet. Announcing more hardware would probably raise the “get your house in order first” flag. Announcing something that will be given to the userbase free is a completely different thing.

rockreid · 2014-03-13T17:08:22.000Z

I don’t see an Octatrack MkII being announced until at least two years from now. Getting the A4 Keys and RYTM out the door and through some OS updates/bug fixes will be the tope priority these next few months, and MD and MnM are older than dirt at this point. They need a sprucing up which I suppose may be announced around NAMM 2015. Perhaps OT MkII will appear at Messe 2015. who knows at this point?

Accent · 2014-03-13T17:23:07.000Z

As I’ll have been waiting about 3 months for my OT before it arrives, I really hope they don’t release a MKII anytime soon, or I’ll turn into a head-spinning, pea soup-spitting demon.

Scannari · 2014-03-13T17:38:30.000Z

As much as I would love “overbridge” functionnalities for the OT, this won’t happen nor a MK2 version, and I won’t hold a grudge at Elektron for that.

AR will be the main focus gear for the year coming (polishing the OS, adding synthesis machines, FX, sample functionnalities, sound packs, unlocking the hidden +drive feature, revealing the Michael Jackson moonwalking easter egg…)
Overbridge for A4/AK/AR to finish by the end of the year (with a new OS per hardware), VST dev, UI design…
Taking care of their new products shipment and support and so on…

I think Elektron HQ will be pretty busy.

What I wish for is a project/sample manager for the OT as Jon stated beeing hardware orientated doesn’t exclude a better communication with a computer. Well this would be really usefull to have an OT manager in this regard. And better for the workflow. I find it hard to believe there is so few samplers (to my knowledge) with official software manager since the MPC4000.

Not having Overbridge for the OT doesn’t undermine the beast (sure it would have been great to get 8in/8out via USB). But then it still is a powerfull hub for the other machines and get you creative away from computer.

Once Overbridge is out for A4/AR, it will open up routing possibilities, free ins and outs from the audio interface. Plug A4/AR via USB, OT via audio… OPTIONS… That is nothing to complain about.

My 2cents…

PS : this is a hobbyist perspective.
I own a MD MK1, MM MK1, OT… Lurking for the A4/AR combo.
I didn’t jump on the MK2 wagon, sometime I regret not to, but have limited founds. What I don’t regret is getting the OT instead.

elenacortes · 2014-03-13T18:46:34.000Z

""Scannari"":

Not having Overbridge for the OT doesn’t undermine the beast (sure it would have been great to get 8in/8out via USB). But then it still is a powerfull hub for the other machines and get you creative away

Yes, ten thousand time yes. I share your point of view

jamrod · 2014-03-13T19:06:04.000Z

Well sure, no one’s saying the OT isn’t great as is. But if Elektron has started to include this functionality in their new gear, I can’t see why they wouldn’t try to add it to a future version of the OT.

I agree that a project/sample manager is essential, though! As it is, I find it very difficult to combine projects into a single live set.

k0ns · 2014-03-13T20:02:02.000Z

The USB on the octatrack is simply and exclusively a path to the flashcard… ! There is no way the overbridge stuff could be done…

But after prolonged use of an octatrack one invariably builds up a mass of bits of project, samples that have been sliced, banks, scenes, .ot files lying around, and pattens here and there and some ‘error can’t find sample’ messages in the audio pool… etc.

The most sensible solution would be an offline editor on the computer. One would hook up usb to your computer as normal when transferring samples. Set the octatrack into USB mode and then organize! Traditionally the argument against this has been that elektron just DON’T do computer software. But now Overbridge proves they can and that softwarethey have produced is even a more complicated than an organizer for the octatrack would be.

zeropoint · 2014-03-13T21:31:19.000Z

Agreed. I’m not looking for capability on the OT that is beyond the hardware.

I do however think that Elektron should, if they’re not prepared to release the file structure so rusty here can put his editor out, put one out of their own. Proper file and project management on the OT is a dog’s ass as it stands.

From the voting on this board it’s the most requested update for the OT as well. So please Jon and the rest of you guys can you sprinkle some love on the OT too now that the analog fairy dust is settling…?

JES · 2014-03-14T03:47:13.000Z

+1.

Anigbrowl · 2014-03-14T04:23:50.000Z

""VennDiagram"":

You’d need AD converters already implemented in the USB interface for audio bidirectional data streaming with the DA converters for feed audio back through the A4 processing the sound through the A4 circuits and back out again also.

It would obviously need to be both a hardware replacement and software rewrite to even get the OT up too spec - wouldn’t be cheap for good AD/DA conversion / bidirectional audio / bidirectional midi etc also with audio that worked at variable sample rates @ 24 bit.

Er…why would you possibly need A/D converters in the USB interface!

Whatever is going over the USB bus is digital, everything else in the OT is also digital from when it arrives at the inputs or until it is sent out of the outputs (where the A/D and D/A converters are already in place). There’s no internal analog signal path because being a sampler, it’s an all-digital instrument, and there’s no analog coming or going over a USB cable.

Re the Microprocessor, audio gear usually has 2 main digital chips, the Digital Signal Processor (from Frrescale or Sharc, IIRC the OT is Freescale) which handles all the sound-warping/effects stuff, and the microcontroller which handles the user interface, the data from the front panel, and all the data housekeeping - all the non-audio stuff in the OS basically. The Analog four/keys/Rytm also have an FPGA which handles all the’plumbing’ for the analog circuits and allows rapid reconfiguration in real time, but that’s not really relevant here.

Sending audio to/from USB requires a chipset at the device end to make it c’lass compliant’ (which the OT apparently doesn’t have) but it doesn’t involve much in the way of signal processing, power, if any, because you’re not doing anything to the audio other than routing it to a particular destination; in this respect it’s a plumbing problem. It’s like the buss buttons on an analog mixer, all they do is split off another copy of that channel to a another bus in addition to the main outputs. The main point of the different chipset for realtime audio is that (in a simple explanation) you have to share an audio clock with the converters so that everything is happening synchronously in the device, otherwise you would get constantly changing latency and so on. It uses standards called I2S (signal) and I2C (control), and obviously these chips aren’t present in the OT (I wonder why not as it seems a missed opportunity and the technology has been around for a long time, but that’s another question).

I do hope there will be the possibility of an upgrade though; I haven’t checked to see if there are any expansion headers inside the OT. It is definitely something I’d pay for.

jonah · 2014-03-15T16:00:18.000Z

do folks really use the octa in ways that tracks have much meaning? i can’t imagine it being very enjoyable to use without bouncing. for instance, i’ll sample lock, resample, sample chain, slice lock, resample, effect lock, resample, switch parts, resample, haha, you get the idea! i’ll use the octas MIDI to mute and unmute my mixer deciding what goes into input abc and d.

point is, everything’s all mashed up. individual tracks wouldn’t do any good in that case. i mean, it’s 8 tracks, you have to layer, yes? at least it’s 4 tracks better than the beatles had.

something like being able to parameter lock or scene lock tracks to the cue outs would be much more useful i think if you desired to isolate individual sounds for whatever purpose, resampling, to send effects, tracking out, and so on.

i agree that the big picture data management would benefit from the same type of flexibility you have with audio and tracks. it’d be great to do stuff like rip banks out of projects and mash them together, save machine and effect settings for later use and name things. just getting more ins and outs i’m not sure would improve the user experience and without new ways of working with them, i think might make it worse.

tbh, if i was managing the octatrack from a computer that much i probably would just use a computer? there isn’t any other (sampling) hardware or non-custom software i’ve used that rewards “disorganized” free association resampling like the octatrack. in a lot of ways i think it’s closer to a patch cord based modular. i like computer software for a lot of stuff, but most of it is made in such a way that it really punishes you for being disorganized and non-methodical, which i find can make it harder to get into the zone.

it would be cool to have one usb cable for bi directional audio and MIDI though!

octacalm · 2014-03-15T16:07:40.000Z

I could be a little naive in thinking this (not reached the stage of exporting stuff to daw) but how about a render track option that is linked to the arranger? Once you have done a song (in the arranger), you could bounce it (track by track) and just click and drag the stems via usb into the daw?

dimi3 · 2014-03-15T16:18:15.000Z

I am working on the slicer app for the OT and I was told that in a few months there may be an API for the OctaTrack…

Naboo · 2014-03-15T22:22:44.000Z

[quote=“” octacalm""]
I could be a little naive in thinking this (not reached the stage of exporting stuff to daw) but how about a render track option that is linked to the arranger? Once you have done a song (in the arranger), you could bounce it (track by track) and just click and drag the stems via usb into the daw?
[/quote]

The ability to transfer audio to the daw without using d/a - a/d conversion would be a massive plus point for anyone using the OT as a core production tool.

MichalHo · 2014-03-16T08:01:30.000Z

[quote=“” dimi3""]
I am working on the slicer app for the OT and I was told that in a few months there may be an API for the OctaTrack…
[/quote]

Now that would be really something : )
Also an internal bounce arranagement to CF card feature as mentioned by octacalm would already make me happy!

dimi3 · 2014-03-16T17:27:05.000Z

""Naboo"":

[quote=" octacalm"]I could be a little naive in thinking this (not reached the stage of exporting stuff to daw) but how about a render track option that is linked to the arranger? Once you have done a song (in the arranger), you could bounce it (track by track) and just click and drag the stems via usb into the daw?

The ability to transfer audio to the daw without using d/a - a/d conversion would be a massive plus point for anyone using the OT as a core production tool.[/quote]
@naboo the audio transfer maybe part of the hardware restrict @jon mention as to why the OT is not in the list…