In my particular setup the OT is more of an extension of my instruments than an instrument itself. I could see it being used as an instrument in other contexts though. I’ve never been a dj, I play guitar, keys, theremin, and sing. Sound sources start at the instruments which get looped, warped, mixed, and effected with OT. It pulls everything together and allows me to sound like a full band as I’m playing instruments, and lots of crazy tricks can be done with the incoming audio… I’m all improv, only 2 samples loaded in OT for over 3 years. My patterns are made out of recorder buffers and my OT does nothing after power cycle until you feed it live audio… I build all of my jams in the moment by sampling in realtime without ever stopping the sequencer…
Exactly jb. Just trying to decipher whats right for what for the benefit of people who can not afford both. This thread may not be for you.
Oh fair enough, I’m only saying cause it’s easy to underestimate OT when you compare it to other gear. It’s unique and what it lacks on paper it more than makes up for in other areas. I came from MPCs onto OT and at first I compared them aswell but they’re sort of apples and oranges after a decent amount of time using either. Give it a chance and I’m sure you’ll find a place for it too, even if it’s a place you didn’t expect
That’s crazy, I’m using an MPC that’s almost 20 years old and the MIDI implementation is fantastic, I’ll actually go as far as doing simple SYSEX programming directly from the MPC itself. It doesn’t have full SYSEX implementation for external control unfortunately (the MPC4000 did but none of the others at least through 1000/2500 which is where I stopped paying attention to MPCs) but for controlling other instruments the older MPCs are fantastic, far more advanced than the OT, and it is possible to control a lot of stuff through footswitch assignment, it’s just that you can only have four footswitches assigned at a time, with only one function each, although that includes the softswitches so there’s a bit more flexibility than it looks like. No auto channel in the sense that the OT has one, but you can set it up to rechannel incoming MIDI recieved on the currently selected track, with that track’s output set to any of the 32 available channels (16x2 ports) and accomplish the same thing. Full soft-thru capability, multi-channel recording (i.e. you can record MIDI data to multiple tracks at the same time), some basic merging and splitting. Pretty unfortunate (but not totally surprising) if the newer models are actually behind the older ones in this regard. It seems like most modern (post 2008 or so) MIDI hardware has been getting LESS capable in terms of its ability to handle more sophisticated MIDI routing, other than the surviving, expensive workstation keyboards that are always msotly incremental upgrades of the last version but never seem to abandon many of the features of previous generations.
Yes, some midi things are still missing in the new mpcs, like multichannel midi recording and soft thru. Also as I recall the usb port sends midi but cannot receive midi (or the other way round), when I tested it with my friens op-1.
Of course it could be I’m missing something as I’m fairly new to mpcs.
On the other hand, the mpc does things I didnt expect them too, like opening my octatrack’s cf card with the browsers and functioning as a soundcard and usb hub for my ipad, when set to controller mode.
jb, totally apples and oranges, and like you i had a similar experience trying to get OT to do what MPC can,
I was aware of what it can do that MPC can’t, but still got frustrated that it can not do what MPC can…
So yes, the end conclusion was that they are different devices altogether… I agree that its key to approach something for what it is, not for whats it not.
24 midi lfos, arp with random, conditional trigs…
Due to OT limitations, I bought an MPC 1000 JJOS2XL again. I didn’t use it. Sold.
I bought an MPC500 just in case if I want realtime midi overdub, linear sequencer. Still don’t use it, but I’ll keep it.
With a midi processor, it is possible to control OT’s slices with pads or any midi controller.
Velocity can be assigned to Vol.
Wait did you sell the 1000 or the OT?
The Mpc 1000 of course ! 
I’ve been owning my OT MK2 for about half a year now and I’m thinking of selling it too.
Coming from MPC, I think the OT-sequencer is really stiff and terrible to use, especially because of all the submenus, key-combinations and what not. It’s probably just not what I was looking for.
The Sample-editor is fast, this is a plus, but too sensitive, just one mistake with the nob (like tweaking the wrong one), and you can start from scratch again. Same with Ableton-LIVE but at least god invented the Ctrl-Z-function. Elektron, hello?
But the real fun-killers of the OT are:
Samples play only mono. This is especially shitty when I have a chopped drum-loop, and I can’t have the hi-hat on the same step where a low-tom would hit. Neither do I want to sacrifice a whole new track for a hi-hat-pattern.
Another unfun-fact: Can’t step-edit intuitively by playing the pads, I need to do it with B-knob for all trigs, I can easily lose count and it’s just not a very fun thing to do. MPC step edit programs the pad I pushed, and if it’s the wrong one, I can correct it easily. This sounds like a non-issue for many, but imagine a 4-bar-drum-loop. Where was that goddamn open crash next to the ghost-kick? Slice 24? ah, no, 25…
Time-stretch, looping position. The submenus of the time-stretch, initial tempo of the loop (I’m talking drum-breaks here; old vinyl shit. Damn, I should call Clide Stubblefield (RIP), what was the BPM of your solo? Ok, maybe it is possible to make the loop roll tight with the metronome on, but I felt better just skipping this whole option with the OT because it’s just a PINA.
For those who don’t know: With the MP, you just loop the thing until it sounds “right” and you have an instant BPM recognition. Adjust the tempo, and here we go. As easy as that.
I could “time stretch” (or ‘warp’) the loop, but I never liked the result soundwise, unless done deliberately on certain slices - but I’ve got the pitch/rate for that.
Since we’re talking loops here: I can’t make an 8-bar loop. Say, I want a pad to subtly change during a sequence - especially pads work better when they’re long - it’s a nightmare to program this into the OT. I could make a 2nd pattern, that would follow up where pattern one left - which means I need to rely on the terrible handling of the copy-paste-pattern combinations. If there is any other way, let me know. The manual doesn’t tell me how (I usually need to read between the lines, which actually means I need to trick out the machine to do what I want it to do).
I don’t need scenes. Never got why everybody’s so in love with them. But to be fair, this my personal problem. I hated the Kaoss Pad too, and the crossfader is pretty much the same thing.
Switching between sequences. Since everything is ruled by ONE Bpm-timecode, you can’t get that much variation. Why is it impossible to save Pattern 1 at 130 bpm and Pattern 2 at 140? Can anybody explain this to me? (You’re free to tell me in detail to prove me otherwise, but RTFM-answers will be ignored in disdain). Fair enough, you encounter the same problem with LIVE - which brings me to the next issue of why electronic music got boring, but this is beyond scope here.
8 Tracks. No overdubs like the MPC could. I repeat, 8 tracks only, and then not even giving me the chance of creating sub-tracks…We’re in 2018, guys. Seriously? It’s nice to have a hardware-sampler that acts like “Simpler”. But these “limitations” are way too big to be ignored, and they’re not making me creative but pissing me off.
Cuckoo was very enthusiastic about the “track-mute”-options in the Arranger. (Oh wow, I’m able to MUTE the tracks, oh wow!!!) So what? I wanna mute WITHIN the pattern; creating sub-sequences like intros, think “hi-hat”-only, then change to kick, then snare plus hihat, And save these transitions as ONE sequence. This goes back to the problem mentioned above, what’s the point in having a sampler where all slices cut-each other off? I could use another track to divide the respective elements - which is killing the options for the arranger.
For the price of an OT MK2, I can get three SP404sx!! THREE!!! Endless resampling, adding of FX and what not.
MK2-manual is suggesting me to create random patterns out of a sliced loop until I’m happy with the result. TILT. Uhm, sorry, I’m not interested. I want precision. But I also want my drum-loops to be longer than 4 bars, and I’m not interested in a 4 x 4 solution (which is a terrible mess with the OT).
All things I mentioned above are more or less about hiphop/drumNbass-issues. Now what about techno?
Just to let you know, when I did Tech with the MPC, I had 15-16 different drum-tracks alone! Different velocities, pitches, unusual patterns, you know, that old-school Hawtin-thing. I can’t enjoy doing this with the OT.
Cuckoo, Carl-Michael, Halution, all nice and sympathetic guys, I can definitely imagine having a beer with them (or a coffee, depending on preference) - but all their tutorials do absolutely NOTHING for me, and none of them are actually even covering the issues I’ve mentioned above. Interesting, huh?
Travelling through YT, I’m actually a bit shocked that I haven’t seen ONE good piece of music done with an OT - my bad for buying it too soon before really checking out. Well, at least I know now.
I might give the AR a chance if I could at least program a pattern that’s actually FUN to program. And I’m totally not interested in a Looper or FX-processor, I got all that already.
All in all - the OT is everything and nothing - which means it can do a lot, but none of it right.
You might ask me why I actually got one? Mhm, good question. Clever marketing I’d say.
Getting your point(s) here but you don’t have to use the OT if it doesn’t suit your habbits, workflow, style, … I mean this in a positive way. I don’t use mine a lot either but that’s another story.
All boxes have limitations, with some you (or I, or we) will feel like you are getting served well for the money invested (eg 404SX, MPC,…) If the conceived limitations of a box outweigh the personal advantages it is more than reasonable to sell the box and move on. Or don’t sell it and give it more time? Forget what you ever did before workflow wise and act like a noob?
New things often imply an alternative approach. Damn alternative approaches to stuff we know is as interesting as the new and shiny if not more.
You mention Youtube. Youtube is not to be taken too serious, really. Think infomercial.
Good luck with your musical path(s)
Have you tried the undo function on elektron gear ?
It’s there…
Well, you can add a BPM to each scene in live. So can you do on the OT. Just use the arranger.
Regarding 8bar pattern: have you even tried conditional trigs?
And you can always resample to save on tracks.
Some of your issues are real, but most are just bc you do not want to change your workflow or did not read the manual/give yourself more time to wrap your head around it.
This post qualifies for the mute button again 
I am out
Dude. Your biggest problem with the Ot seems to be the lack of tracks. You mention the SP404 can resemble endlessly. Guess what? So does the OT. Real simple as well. Just resample your drums into one track and you’re 
.
Regarding OP’s question, I was there too, I was having buyers remorse for 3 weeks! It took me about half a year to realise what I could do though (would been quicker if I had any live gigs during that period). For my first live gig with this project I was in heaven when I realised the possibilities of putting my mastered stems from already finished songs into my OT. All of a sudden I was remixing myself in ways I didn’t think of before. The OT is an instrument, sure you COULD squeeze it into being a production centrepiece, but I don’t know. It’s at the heart of my live setup that’s for sure, but a multi track production performance is just way better in Ableton. The OT is an awesome piece of kit that enables you to do many many things. SO! A couple things I love about it!
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The slicing. You do NEED to learn the procedure, like you would an instrument. When you got the muscle memory, things fly by, and you start to listen instead of looking at the screen (first thing I don’t like about the OT).
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The scenes, yes the scenes. This is something that most people start to get into real late, because it demands you setting it up first. But once you’ve done that, it’s just fun, man.
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The depth. This instrument will keep on giving as long as you’re interested. The more time you invest, I promise you, the more you will realise what crazy things this little black box can do.
With all this said, some things that still bothers me.
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Longer patterns are just a mess. At times I want really long patterns (like x1/8 tempo, master at 512 steps before pattern change), and something gets messed up along the way, you need so it all over. Eats ridiculous amounts of time. That’s when you want the linear, conventional type of MPC sequencing.
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The FX just like you said, are of utility-level. I still use them, and no one would think bad of them in a mix. But I wouldn’t do minimal productions that heavily rely on them. Hence I use outboard FX, and it works like a charm!
Well that’s my opinion, and of course it’s personal. Ciao!
SP comparisions…I was talking about 10 pad banks with 12 different samples each, more or less infinite length…
Dude, I can slice samples with the OT. It’s just not the perfect experience.
I know I can resample with OT - which get me to the problem of slices muting each other.
And yes, the sequence-length is ruining this to me .
Bottom line:
I think you said it best. After all, I think the OT is best used as a processing unit, like an advanced mixer.
But again, this is not what I’m looking for, I want a stand-alone machine, probably like a groovebox.
That’s why I’ll try out the AR, I’ll be more happy with it I guess.
Sounds like you may not be thinking about song creation in OT. An OT Project can be set up as a single song. (The supplied preset patterns can get us thinking in a limited way, IMO.) Then, the various patterns can be parts of the song. If you need more than 64 steps, for a particular part, you can create another pattern and set up to automatically move to the next pattern.
1 uh… the name of the machine is the OCTATRACK (like octagon lol)…again OCTATRACK
2 If you’re creative with PARTS and using sample locks… the possibilities are endless
SPs have the poorest sequencer of Roland / Boss history !
Up to 3 hours samples with OT and CF card.
MPCs sequences are boring to edit, even with JJOSXL.
+1 for midi overdub, longer patterns, linear recording, polyphony