OT randomly issue « file not found » when changing sample with Fn+Left/right arrow

[WeirdFishes]

Hi @Gat.
I downloaded your Techno Set and reproduced the issue twice (got only 15mins free tonight) for T4 files.

Try to swap samples with Fn + left / right arrow many times with T2 T3 T4 T7 & T8 during playing and tell me if you have the « file not found » error message.

Just swapping samples with arrows on one of these track did not show any error but swapping samples on several tracks very fast, one by one, almost simultaneously did show.
I’m not sure if it is issue for the given Set or just behaviour for Card>RAM loading
(requires tests on another set).

After every sample swap there is the ‘Loading’ message shown on the slot row for a short time (depends on file size). For T8 there are bigger files / longer loops prepared to swap and load. When I was switching samples on T8 and jumped (very fast!) to the T4 to do the same (probably during still loading T8 file) the ‘Error: File not found’ appeared.
Maybe it is impossible to load two files at the same time?
More tests could reveal more details but this is not my workflow and will probably never meet the issue again.

PS: I’m not techno guy at all but these loops and sounds in the project are really cool.

[tnussb]

And bug is present in 1.31 too.

I wouldn’t call this a bug per se, because this kind of sample switching is more a hack than an intended use case.

When the file system on the CF card gets under stress it simply doesn’t respond fast enough and the OT interprets this as “file not found”.

I don’t think you can do much about it other then not scheduling another switch while there is still one ongoing and - maybe - use shorter files. A faster card may also help a little bit, but in general the same rules apply as with static machines: streaming is fine, everything else may work, but isn’t guaranteed.

[sezare56]

Wirh 1.30B it worked perfectly for me, with Flex and Static.
I think there is a new bug possibility.
It would be interesting if some nauts with versions before 1.30C would try too.

[Gat]

Big up man
You find it, im not only.
Yes in live situation i fast switch sample because some sample dont feat well with another Sample on other track so i instantly swap some samples like a Ninja lool.
I use a CF transcend UDMA7 64gb 400x speed.

I tested my set on the 2 other CF card same issue.
So it’s not due to the CF himself I think.
So I find my worflow with this setup by swaping sample « a la volée » and I love it.
Maybe elektron can say or make something about this bug.
I create a ticket but no reponse from them

[Gat]

Could you please test to reproduce the bug but with your samples, not with my set.
And tell me if the bug appear to.
Thanks you

[Rusty]

Been discussing this on FB with @Gat; think might be a speed issue [ i.e. buffer | file i/o ]

So suggested to try doing it slowly and see if can be replicated.

And maybe best to use Sample Chains et al instead…

[WeirdFishes]

I deliberately did not use the word ‘bug’ because like guys above I think this is speed issue. It could be better to reorganize your workflow than forcing Elektron to correct this.
Making sample chains or maybe placing all samples you swap in 1 directory on the card instead of 8 folders? I don’t know.
(MK2, 1.31).

[tnussb]

Technically spoken it’s not about speed, but latency. Behind the curtain the OT requests a directory listing (to analyse what file is the next/previous one) and - sometimes - it doesn’t get the answer in time to fulfill your request. So what should it do? Try again later out of sync with your request? The only reasonable solution is to notify you about the situation.

“file not found” may not be the correct wording for the problem beneath, but even if it writes out more correctly “file not found in time” this will not change anything.

The only thing Elektron could do is cache directory listings in RAM so it doesn’t need to query it just in time, but that would require a not negligible additional amount of memory and needs to be incorporated into all functions which accesses the CF card.

From a realistic point of view such a change will not happen that late in the lifetime of a product.

The only solution to this is to modify your workflow. When you want to reliable switch fast between samples, the samples needs to be at least in one of the slot lists, so the OT knows upfront of it’s filename and doesn’t need to query the file system. Or even better (as already suggested): use sample chains.

[Gat]

Ok i undertand.
I will modifying my workflow.
I used before sample chains with one shot but never try sample chains with loops.
It can be really nice if I map the « slice number » to my Midi controller that I already use for volume tracks and FX2 send.
Now I need to create sample chains with my many many loops all with the same length?

Thx for your help guys

[Rusty]

It can be really nice if I map the « slice number » to my Midi controller that I already use for volume tracks and FX2 send.

CC#017

Now I need to create sample chains with my many many loops all with the same length?

Not necessarily required if you are using Slices [ Setup Param B = SLIC ] as then the start points can be variable and controlled with Slice Number [ Param B] . As opposed to not, where the Start Parameter [ Param B] will be Start.

[sezare56]

Yes advantage with sample chains : you don’t have silent gaps. But I’m surprised the Fn+Arrow thing works for me. My good old OT must be very fast.

many many loops all with the same length?

Same length if you want to create sample chains for Start mode : advantage : 128 loops max, vs 64 for Slice mode. You need 128 loops, not less.

With Slice mode you can have less loops. If you have less than 64 slices and set Slice number above, the slice with the highest number is played.

You can do your sample chains with softwares like @Rusty’s OctaEdit, or @Abhoth’s Octachainer.

[Gat]

Just to say THANKS all who helped me on my issues.

So i followed your advices and I decided to use this technique instead:

Octatrack 64 breakbeat x 16 slices megabreak of doom:

Slice knob on your scenes not trigs. So hold scene a and move your slice knob to 1. Then hold scene b and move the slice knob to 64

It works, it’s stable, no more fucking « file not found », more reliable, practical and faster.
It’s a bite long and like @sezare56 said in the French forum it’s gave an headache to make the entire process from A to Z (i use ableton and Octachainer) BUT when your megabreak of doom works it’s just awesome

Thanks again all for your time and your help

[sezare56]

“Error : Megabreak not found”

[Gat]

“Error : Megabreak not found”

Hahahaha

I will map the « slice number » parameter to my midi controller an old UC33 (love it since many years).
@sezare56 can you remember me the CC# please.

[Gat]

Oops you have mentioned it sry

CC#017

[sezare56]

For the Megabreak, depending on slices number, you may have to use the crossfader’s CC48. If you always use 64 slices, CC17 will suffice.
I had the UC33 too, efficient and cheap standalone controller.

[roadmoviemusic]

and like @sezare56 said in the French forum

Where’s that?

[sezare56]

Where’s that?

Audiofanzine Octatrack Forum.

[tnussb]

My good old OT must be very fast.

Na, - you, my good old friend, are simply too slow

[sezare56]

I’m very fast. We can go up to 600 bpm with my OT.

Heart attacks? Sometimes…