OT for recreating MnM tracks live?

AdamJay · 2015-06-05T15:51:09.000Z

So, here’s the deal.
I’ve been using the MnM/A4/Rytm trinity somewhat happily for months.
There are things I like about each instrument, and things I dislike as well. But, overall, I’m pleased with their capabilities and portability.
.
I’ve been wanting to add a looper for sometime. The Pigtronix Infinity Looper seems to do exactly what I want the most, and that was the direction I was leaning toward. But then I began to think about how limited I feel with the lack of performance features on the MonoMachine (compared to the black Elektrons) and how there are some other synths (Evolver, Blofeld) I would like to implement in my productions and also use those sounds on stage.
…
So I am thinking of adding an Octatrack for the purposes of transition loops and mangling, and playing back some recorded loops from MonoMachine and other synths. MnM and other synths would stay in the studio for any gigs I have to fly to (which is most of them), I would just be bringing the dark trinity and a Nord Drum to those gigs. My flight case will only allow for 3 Elektrons. Would the OT be a good solution for bringing in looped phrases of various other instruments? I feel that I could do as much to recorded MnM phrases with an OT as I can do to them live with the MnM instrument itself.
.
Another option is to swap my Rytm for an OT, as my Rytm is my least inspiring instrument at the moment. I like it more for performance than for sound design, which is sort of the opposite opinion I have of my MonoMachine. OT/A4/MnM for the stage? Can OT replace Rytm?
.
The last option being to just add the Infity Looper and no OT. Lose loop mangling, and just manage the MnM more directly for stage use. I am most inclined to this solution, as it requires little mental effort in familiarizing myself with new equipment, however it is the most limiting with no real room for bringing along additional instruments.
.
Halp?

debug · 2015-06-05T17:06:06.000Z

I think you almost can’t go wrong with the OT as part of your setup.

You get a looper, sampler, midi sequencer, multi-effects processor in one box with the same sequencer you already know and love.

It’s probably the most complex of the Elektron gear but you don’t need to master it all at once. It is much better to plan out how you think you’ll use it in your current setup and then learn more tricks as you go.

For instance, I’ve never used the pickup machines but use the midi sequencer, thru, and flex machines a lot.

Obviously with a sampler you can bring whatever sounds you want from any source with you to a show and leave more gear behind. Depends on how essential it is for you to manipulate the sound generation live vs processing/chopping those sounds with filters, effects, lfos, etc.

I tried incorporating a MnM into my setup recently but four machines was a machine too far for my brain/setup. I considered using it just to make sounds I could sample with the OT but it was a lot of money for that purpose when I have a laptop full of softsynths I could sample as well.

I love my AR but if I had to give one up it would go before the A4 and OT. It is kind of ironic because when I decided to move away from the laptop the first thing I wanted to get was a drum machine.

It’s just that the A4 can recreate many of the A4’s analog synth drums and the OT can obviously play any sampled drum so, arm twisted, I could get by without the AR…but I’d miss those super fun pads, easy mutes, easy performance tweaks, etc.

dubathonic · 2015-06-05T18:44:09.000Z

""AdamJay"":

I feel that I could do as much to recorded MnM phrases with an OT as I can do to them live with the MnM instrument itself.

The short answer from a sound quality perspective: I record MnM phrases into my OT quite a bit for gigs and it works fine.

The longer answer has to do with the advantages the MnM has over the OT. For awhile I thought that because it could sample tons of phrases, the OT was all I’d need at the gig and the MnM could stay home. But the longer I use the MnM, the more I appreciate its arpeggiators’ ability to add subtle but endless variations into a pattern. For that ability alone, I wouldn’t want to gig without it. That’s me and my approach though.

The OT offers lots of cool ways to add variation as well, not least of which are its independent track lengths, greater range of effects, and slicing capabilities, not to mention all the great tricks the crossfader can do. If your MnM lines don’t change appreciably as your tracks progress, the OT could be a terrific option.

Another thought that might save you money though: Have you at least tried recording your MnM lines into a DAW and chopping them up there, then loading them into the AR? You could use a couple of its tracks to play them back, and not need to buy&learn a new instrument.

bluewolfse7en · 2015-06-05T21:43:02.000Z

[quote=“” dubathonic""]

[quote=“AdamJay”]I feel that I could do as much to recorded MnM phrases with an OT as I can do to them live with the MnM instrument itself.
[/quote]

The longer answer has to do with the advantages the MnM has over the OT. For awhile I thought that because it could sample tons of phrases, the OT was all I’d need at the gig and the MnM could stay home. But the longer I use the MnM, the more I appreciate its arpeggiators’ ability to add subtle but endless variations into a pattern. For that ability alone, I wouldn’t want to gig without it. That’s me and my approach though. [/quote]
Yeah I feel the same way & I love the LFO’s working their magic in such an organic way.
Sample loops are ok but I find I’m very aware of the loop point, no matter the length, & it really annoys me. Guess it depends how much subtle modulation you have going on. Doubt an audience would notice!
The OT certainly can bring a lot to the table but it ain’t the same.
Maybe see if you can borrow an OT for a few days & see if it works for you?

AdamJay · 2015-06-05T21:52:51.000Z

""dubathonic"":

Another thought that might save you money though: Have you at least tried recording your MnM lines into a DAW and chopping them up there, then loading them into the AR? You could use a couple of its tracks to play them back, and not need to buy&learn a new instrument.

Actually, that was one of the first solutions I explored, and the mono sampling of Rytm proved to be somewhat of a deal-breaker. I use a lot of stereo fx and automation on my MnM compositions, and much depth was lost when converting to mono, even after adding stereo FX in Rytm.
It worked okay for the odd synth line, but 90% of what I write with MnM is self contained, an entire track on the instrument by itself. For this, Rytm did not suffice. I wonder if OT would? 5 drum and synth tracks, plus FX, and then I may have a couple left over with OT for live sampling, looping, mangling, right?
.
I should add a bit about my MnM workflow. It’s actually quite similar to my A4 and AR workflows. I write entire tracks on single Elektron instruments, usually using 4 patterns and then adding realtime tweaks, mutes, and variation tricks to make a complete tune. It’s a bit more restricting on MnM, as it has no performance mode, but I do my best to make up for that by utilizing all the LFOs to bring in as much automated variation as I can.
.
You make great points about why it is nice to have the MnM available live. Even after its weaknesses, it has so many strengths. I’ve perfected going off the deep end and returning to sanity with Kit Reload. I could also dedicate my FaderMaster to MnM instead of Rytm, where it is now, and use that for immediate performance style assignments on those faders. Or one of Guga’s forthcoming updated devices.
.
Tough decision!

Accent · 2015-06-05T23:07:06.000Z

The last thing I would do is talk you out of an Octatrack, but since it sounds like your biggest issue is the lack of performance control on the Mono, have you considered getting a midi controller for it instead? It took me maybe an hour to map the controls of the MNM to a Novation X-Station 25, and it made the Mono much more performance friendly…just the joystick alone was a huge thing. Plus, you could use it for your other gear.

May not be an option due to size/travel, but maybe worth considering.

AdamJay · 2015-06-05T23:14:53.000Z

[quote=“” Accent""]
The last thing I would do is talk you out of an Octatrack, but since it sounds like your biggest issue is the lack of performance control on the Mono, have you considered getting a midi controller for it instead? It took me maybe an hour to map the controls of the MNM to a Novation X-Station 25, and it made the Mono much more performance friendly…just the joystick alone was a huge thing. Plus, you could use it for your other gear.

May not be an option due to size/travel, but maybe worth considering.
[/quote]

Yea, I’m thinking that taking my FaderMaster off Rytm duty and assigning it to MnM will be the first order of business here.
It should even the playing field between the 3 Elektrons.

AdamJay · 2015-06-06T23:02:02.000Z

Alright I am leaning toward OT as a synth loop player more heavily now. Mostly because it opens me up to bringing more studio recorded hooks and such to the stage, without hauling all that gear.
.
I wanted to also ask about its capabilities as a mixer.
I was previously using Rytm’s compressor for everything, and therefore mixing A4 and MnM on a Mackie Mix5 and feeding that into Rytm.
This worked okay but I could never “cue” the Rytm in headphones, as it always had to be live to send through the mixed external input signal. So I have been using a dedicated mixer to achieve cueing of all 3 Elektrons,
.
I’d like to avoid that scenario, and also avoid the need for a dedicated mixer.
Will the OT allow me to headphone cue the AR, the A4, and its own internal audio tracks before making them heard out of the main outputs?

PeterHanes · 2015-06-06T23:10:57.000Z

""AdamJay"":

…

Will the OT allow me to headphone cue the AR, the A4, and its own internal audio tracks before making them heard out of the main outputs?

Sure: plug the main outs from the AF and AR into inputs AB and CD, then just use the Cue feature.
You can choose how much of the OT’s main output signal and how much of the cue output signal appear in the headphone output.

AdamJay · 2015-06-06T23:17:05.000Z

""PeterHanes"":

[quote=“AdamJay”]…

Will the OT allow me to headphone cue the AR, the A4, and its own internal audio tracks before making them heard out of the main outputs?

Sure: plug the main outs from the AF and AR into inputs AB and CD, then just use the Cue feature.
You can choose how much of the OT’s main output signal and how much of the cue output signal appear in the headphone output.[/quote]
Perfect. Thanks, Peter.
And thanks to everyone else for contributing here.