I’m still figuring it out, but i’ve used tons of gears over the years (MPC, Clavia, Roland, Electribe…):
This machine is too complicated to use. Hardware is supposed to be fun, intuitive, fast, this machine is not.
All the buttons / knobs look the same, making it difficult to have visual repairs. If this was a plugin, everybody would say it’s poorly designed.
How do i load multiple samples ? Guess i have to load each 256 samples individually ?
Why don’t each parts (T1-T8) LEDs blink everytime it’s used ? Why do the led blinds on the 16 part sequencer instead ?
I still have no clue how sampling works, how the slider works, how to do step automation…
Why do i have to press CUE + Metronome to activate it ? Why not FUNCTION + Metronome ?
It took me ages to know how to preview a SAMPLE before loading it. FUNCTION + YES isn’t convenient at all.
It also took me ages to figure out you have to press FUNCTION + DOWN to change from track to slots to slice etc… How could i have ever figured it out myself ?
Even after watching hours of tutorials online i still don’t get the architecture of this machine. Looking at the comments i’m not sure i’m the only one who thinks it’s a mess.
etc etc…
This machine is designed by scientists, not musicians. I’ll still keep it, because there’s just nothing else that can do what it does. I know they were aiming to make ableton in a box, but it doesn’t have to be THAT complicated.
Its not hard at all to me. Just a few tricks you’ll have to learn like on any device. I can name several devices less intuitive than ot. Roland sp404 has a lot more strange keycombo’s that don’t make sense, or even the op1 is filled with weird combos
Function yes makes perfect sense for previewing to me. When browsing samples, you select them with yes, and preview with function yes.
Selecting the play mode with function+down, if you’ve done it once, you’ll remember it.
The rest is all right before you, easy recording of triggers, setting all amp/fx params is directly selectable. Sampling is as easy as pressing a track and the record button of the correct input. Create a scene is just holding the scene button and wiggle your desired param, locking a value to a trigger is just holding a trig and wiggle a param. All sounds really well thought out to me.
There is some kind of Elektron logic that you can retrieve on other Elektron hardware. What makes no sense to you may be OK for the user of another Elektron machine.
The interface is not really thought for the beginner to understand the machine without the manual, you’re right.
But the machine is deep : learn to use a functionality one after the other, it will make sense at some point.
Take you time to learn the machine, the reward is huge.
The point is you don’t need to figure it out for yourself, admittedly it’s poorly written, but everything is in the manual. You can’t expect a machine this deep to be simple to operate. It’s the sort of machine that you can grow into and I for one love that.
I didn’t like the SP404 as well, but it’s super cheap. The Elektron machine are quite expensive, i think i expected something perfect, hence my rant. The MPCs were quite expensive back in the days too, but they were easier to learn. Ok they’re not the same beast (and they lack knobs) but you could get a sense of the overall architecture quite fast, it has a great workflow.
I feel the workflow of the OT involves too much menu diving, it’s a shame, i wish Elektron would make a simpler OT V2. I wanted to ditch the computer, not look at a screen while making music, and for now all i’ve been doing is watching hours of tutorials on youtube and still not grasping the machine completely.
It takes a little longer than most samplers but that’s because it does a lot more than them. At first it kind of seems like a lot of stuff is a hassle. But then you realise that it’s necessary to kind of spoon feed it your intentions because there are so many different routes you can take with what you want to do. It needs you to tell it which way to go with stuff. But once you get the basics down you can begin making music and pick the rest up as you go. Feels like I’ll be learning new things for a long time. But that’s a good thing on something like this.
As far as menu diving etc. I don’t really find that a problem. If you want a big sample library you’re gonna have to deal with folders. Same as a laptop. And using an effect/vst etc in ableton/daw will involve finding it/arming/tweaking etc. It’s not an instant thing. So in those ways it’s no better or worse to a laptop. Most things can be reached super easy. Less common stuff is only couple of clicks. Same as ableton etc.
I’ve had mine a couple of weeks but not had much spare time to use/learn it. But I’m pretty up to speed now as far as most things I need to know so as to be able to start making music with it how I want to. The manual is a bitch, but once you get through that and read merlins guide you’ll be pretty set. Then YouTube or forum for any walls you hit.
There are a few problems with my OT, or the OS. Which will hopefully get sorted soon. And there are some things id love to see thrown in in the next update. But it is what it is and besides a couple of things I’d like to see improved/added I can’t really complain as the user interface works once you learn it and then the rest is down to user as far as how far they want to go with learning all the tricks and weird stuff it can also do. You should give it another week at least…
As I told you earlier, OT is not the kind of machine that you “grasp completely” after a few weeks of use.
When you will understand most of it (like how to use the key-component crossfader for instance), you should see that in general while playing almost no menu diving is needed.
While editing, there is more menu diving, but you’ll end finding some shortcuts to get to the aspects you use most and get to it in a two-button sequence quite easily. Thinking of slice editing for instance.
As painful as it can be, try to swallow your frustration and admit you’ll not master the whole machine in 2 months.
Don’t try to find your workflow immediately : be brave and humble, learn it the only way, reading the manual entirely.
Then try to master every chapter/aspect piece by piece : you’ll see that OT is not that complicated. It’s the mashing of possibilities that can get it confusing at first.
Tutorial are really useful only once you’ve read the manual.
BTW : depending of the kind of samples you want to use, maybe sample-chains are something that would need to be considered.
mastering the OT in under 6 months is imho NOT possible…
what made the official turorials w o r s e for me, is the fact, they had spacey music in the background, which totally carried my mind away, even though I wanted to understand what was going on there…
1 track 1 sampe 1 part for starters… dont try to go all the way in for the beginning…
The key its just focus on one thing and learn it then another one, and so on. First sequencing, second the sampler… Dont try to do all at the same time
i’m fine, as i’ve said i’ve had tons of samplers & sequencers, and i’ve already figured out quite a lot of stuff, enough to make a track. It doesn’t change my mind : a lot of things could have been simpler and better designed.
Another example : why is the filter knob in fine tuning by default ? all these knobs which are in “fine tuning mode” by default when it’s not necessary are just annoying. Elektron could learn a thing or two from Clavia.
Again, it’s a fine machine, it’s just too expensive to have such flaws.
I’m not 100% but I think ALL knobs shift in small increment by default, but it you press the knob down when turning they shift much quicker. Which as a function has been working pretty well for me…
[quote=“” octatruck""]
I’m still figuring it out, but i’ve used tons of gears over the years (MPC, Clavia, Roland, Electribe…):
This machine is too complicated to use. Hardware is supposed to be fun, intuitive, fast, this machine is not.
All the buttons / knobs look the same, making it difficult to have visual repairs. If this was a plugin, everybody would say it’s poorly designed.
How do i load multiple samples ? Guess i have to load each 256 samples individually ?
Why don’t each parts (T1-T8) LEDs blink everytime it’s used ? Why do the led blinds on the 16 part sequencer instead ?
I still have no clue how sampling works, how the slider works, how to do step automation…
Why do i have to press CUE + Metronome to activate it ? Why not FUNCTION + Metronome ?
It took me ages to know how to preview a SAMPLE before loading it. FUNCTION + YES isn’t convenient at all.
It also took me ages to figure out you have to press FUNCTION + DOWN to change from track to slots to slice etc… How could i have ever figured it out myself ?
Even after watching hours of tutorials online i still don’t get the architecture of this machine. Looking at the comments i’m not sure i’m the only one who thinks it’s a mess.
etc etc…
This machine is designed by scientists, not musicians. I’ll still keep it, because there’s just nothing else that can do what it does. I know they were aiming to make ableton in a box, but it doesn’t have to be THAT complicated.
[/quote]
It’s not that complicated. Just use it to do what you need to do, when you discover there’s something MORE you need to do, open the manual.
From your description it sounds like you were trying to figure out ever single function of the box, which in all fairness is complicated and a headache. I’d suggest just start making a beat, see where it take you and when you hit a wall, THEN you figure out the function to get you over the wall.
Maybe go and check out the first Elektron Science Lab section of this forum. Tons of enlightenment in there.
[quote=“” Lying Dalai""]
There is some kind of Elektron logic that you can retrieve on other Elektron hardware. What makes no sense to you may be OK for the user of another Elektron machine.
[/quote]
Not to me.
I started with the AK, and felt comfortable with it after a couple days. I spent months trying to like the OT, and eventually sold it because I just wasn’t having any fun with it.
Not the fault of the OT, we just never got along…
Try to read manual and practice 3x times. When you finish third reading - you will not ask so much questions, because you will love this machine. Yes, this device is unusual (little bit), but octatrack is really amazing…
you need 10000 hours of practice to excell at something,
you need +20h of practice to be ok at something. That’s what research says about skills.
have you read Merlin’s Guide? I wish i had read that first…the Parts section will help it become much clearer. Also Cuckoo made a long sampling tutorial.
I noticed no one actually took the time to address your complaints, so here is my take on each.
This machine is too complicated to use. Hardware is supposed to be fun, intuitive, fast, this machine is not.
* Once you have some basics down, this machine most definitely is fun and fast. Though I wish they would make it easier to set up templates. I’ve been trying to create blank projects with machines set up for different reasons. I think any bit of hardware takes time to master though, regardless of the intuitiveness of some devices. The bad thing with a device that is too shallow and intuitive is that the functionality is often also shallow, though I admit sometimes it’s those restrictions that can lead to inspiration. Deep devices on the other hand take time to explore, and that exploration is not only a reward to use, but also to inspiration.
All the buttons / knobs look the same, making it difficult to have visual repairs. If this was a plugin, everybody would say it’s poorly designed.
* All the buttons on every bit of hardware usually look the same? The place for doing different things more or less is consistent once you know where.
How do i load multiple samples ? Guess i have to load each 256 samples individually ?
* If you load your samples into the machine grouped together in folders, you can load them up pretty quickly on the slot screen. By default it increments one sample slot/sample each time. Though if you are loading that many samples into a project at once, i suspect you are missing point of the OT.
Why don’t each parts (T1-T8) LEDs blink everytime it’s used ? Why do the led blinds on the 16 part sequencer instead ?
* t1-t8 blinks when it’s being output to que instead. So that would be misleading.
I still have no clue how sampling works, how the slider works, how to do step automation…
* Watch the elektron videos, they are short, sweet, and make things clear.
Why do i have to press CUE + Metronome to activate it ? Why not FUNCTION + Metronome ?
It took me ages to know how to preview a SAMPLE before loading it. FUNCTION + YES isn’t convenient at all.
* It is once you know it’s there. You can also preview a track by holding down the Tn button and pressing play. You can stop a track playing in the same way. Sometimes I don’t even start the sequencer and just use these combos to start/stop things which is kind of nice.
It also took me ages to figure out you have to press FUNCTION + DOWN to change from track to slots to slice etc… How could i have ever figured it out myself ?
* It’s one of those added functionalities. So it’s not screened on the front of the device. Consider it a secret
Even after watching hours of tutorials online i still don’t get the architecture of this machine. Looking at the comments i’m not sure i’m the only one who thinks it’s a mess.
etc etc…
* You must have watched the wrong tutorials.
You should be able to watch all of these in about an hour and know at least most of the things you’ve asked about
This machine is designed by scientists, not musicians. I’ll still keep it, because there’s just nothing else that can do what it does. I know they were aiming to make ableton in a box, but it doesn’t have to be THAT complicated.
* The ableton in a box was not coined by elektron (I think CDM has that honour) and it is rather misleading. It’s quite unique and just takes a bit of time to get used to the way it works, for every limitation that is frustrating, there are depths and techniques which are unique to the OT and very rewarding to use. It encourages experimentation, and has some of that voodoo hidden in it, where you can coax tricks and sounds that you just wouldn’t have come up with otherwise. I understand your frustration, and maybe the OT isn’t for you. At least it’s resale value is pretty good if you decide to give it up.
Oh i should mention that sampling is mostly track+one of teh red input buttons, or midi (for resampling) super quick once you know how. There are a pretty deep selection of options for how those buttons behave which you can access with function+red buttons. But you would see this in the tutorials, though I think that was one thing i had to reread in the manual a few times to get right.
