OT as 4-track bus system: Has anyone explored this?

dubathonic · 2014-07-30T14:33:42.000Z

A question for OT users who spend more time with DAWs than I do, which is likely most of you

A project I’ve had in the back of my mind for some time is configuring my OT to serve as a multiband processor and mixer for my MD. The basic idea would be to run 4 MD outputs through the OT’s 4 inputs, then assign 4 to 8 OT tracks as Thru and/or Neighbor machines. The goal is to get the benefit of a DAW’s multitrack/bus system in my live rig without hauling a computer to gigs. (Which fyi are house/tech, with a fair number of tracks being solo MD compositions.)

Looking for the usual mixing and production advantages here, like a dedicated channel for the kick, multiband EQ so I can notch certain freq’s on certain voices, that sort of thing.

My main question at this point is whether it’s worth the time and bother to explore this. It’s obvious that DAWs offer a far greater amount of power and high-quality filters/EQ/efx that the OT doesn’t, so maybe I’d be asking too much of the OT. But the OT is in theory flexible enough in terms of configuration that I keep wondering. The setup is possible … but has anyone found it’s worth it?

the_dreammer · 2014-07-30T15:17:49.000Z

what you describe… is simply put… what i want to do next with my octatrack and machinedrum…

I am not so happy with the realtime sampling on the machinedrum… but i do think
the realtime sampling on the octatrack is fun… the octatrack itself as a main sound-generator give me mixed results… but i do get nice stuff from my machinedrum…

So i bet the combi will be awesome… just not sure yet… if i make the cue-track on the octatrack go back into the machinedrum… or the main-outs.

MK7 · 2014-07-30T18:00:51.000Z

Interesting, Chad! I’ve also been thinking a lot about the same topic during the last weeks.

To make it short, I came to the conclusion that the MD should go directly to a mixer. As several guys in this and the previous forum mentioned, the OT’s inputs can easily distort/saturate.

What I tried, because I thought it would be the perfect mixing/FX/resampling setup, involving MD, OT and a small Mackie mixer:

MD, 6 separate outs (Kick, Snare, Toms, Percs, Hihats, Cymbals).
Outs 1 and 2 directly routed to Mackie channels 1 and 2, in order to ensure that kick and snare have the full punch of their original signals.
Outs 3 to 6 routed to the OT’s 4 in’s, where 2 Through and 2 Flex Recorder Playback machines are set up. All 4 of these machines operate in “pseudo-stereo” where the left side contains different sounds/instruments than the right side. I also tried 8 mono machines, but didn’t notice a difference, sound-wise. The first 8 scenes select the through machines and apply different FX, the second 8 scenes apply to the flex machines. This can be used to easily switch from original to sample playback and all kinds of weird FX etc.
On the Mackie mixer, I used 6 channels for mixing and EQ of the MD’s 6 outs, as without the OT, but with channels 3-6 being routed through the OT.

Finding: that’s no good idea, simply because the OT is so “sensitive” regarding hot signals. Even some toms can easily distort and it’s very difficult, or, as I would rather put it: annoying, to ensure that the input lights stay green. The little Mackie mixer, to the contrary, has LOTs of headroom and it even stays calm and sorted when getting under fire from a cranked up Jomox Mbase!

Conclusion: From my experience, the MD should go directly to a mixer. There you can easily adjust levels, panning, EQ, FX sends, without having to worry about saturations or not-so-nice digital distortion, clipping whatever. In my setup, the OT is either the main drum machine (no problem there, 4 outs), or wired to an AUX send of the mixer for FX and resampling. Switching from an original to a resampled signal is then more complicated, at least with my old mixer from the 90’s, that doesn’t have Cue outs yet, but all the punch of the MD is preserved!

nirun · 2014-07-30T18:30:51.000Z

i actually find a lot of use with the OT compressor when used gently

that paired with the EQ on every input with whatever neighbor machine FX you desire can be very very useful on incoming signals.

Found a lot of use with modular, incoming electric guitar/bass guitar signals. OP-1, and processing individual drum sounds. Add scenes/crossfader and p-locks and you have quite a bit of options based on your needs.

Rusty · 2014-07-30T21:43:24.000Z

I tried doing something along those lines, feeding four seperate inputs from a Virus TI.

I found bleed occuring when trying to address inputs individually, so I’d recommend trying that part out first and ensuring you don’t have that occur, and if so, that it is not a deal breaker.

I think I got different scenarios dependent on whether I was using Thru machines or not, but the bottom line was that the bleed level was bad enought that made it a non viable option moving forward, so I ditched that concept.

Allerian · 2014-07-31T01:48:14.000Z

""MK7"":

Finding: that’s no good idea, simply because the OT is so “sensitive” regarding hot signals. Even some toms can easily distort and it’s very difficult, or, as I would rather put it: annoying, to ensure that the input lights stay green. The little Mackie mixer, to the contrary, has LOTs of headroom and it even stays calm and sorted when getting under fire from a cranked up Jomox Mbase!

Daily OT user here since the pre-order. This distortion you describe is an experience that I do not have with either of my OTs. I run every single thing in my studio (including a bunch of semi-uncontrollable circuit bent stuff) through the OT at one time or another without issue and everything remains as clear as its origin sound. I even sample in very long mixes through the inputs and they sound amazing, especially after EQ and FX treatment in the OT.
Btw, you want the input lights to be yellow or you’ll be boosting in the editor.

nirun · 2014-08-01T13:58:14.000Z

inputs definitely bleed when fed with a really hot signal, but this is common across a lot of hardware. A lot of output stage eurorack modules exhibit the same behavior on the inputs from my experience.

Just have to keep the VU indicator green and watch your envelopes. Was a bit of a headache at first, but now my mixes sound much much better. Gain staging is a bitch across so many different sources but having the extra headroom really helps.

danlukas · 2014-08-01T15:11:58.000Z

""MK7"":

the OT’s inputs can easily distort/saturate.

the OT is so “sensitive” regarding hot signals. Even some toms can easily distort and it’s very difficult, or, as I would rather put it: annoying, to ensure that the input lights stay green.

agree. this has been frustrating for me. but it makes me wonder how guys like dateline are structuring things, as everything sounds fine running through his octatrack.

at this point for me, i’m not feeling solid about routing any or everything through the OT.

bluewolfse7en · 2014-08-01T17:02:37.000Z

This is weird as I feed everything (modular too), thru my OT & I’ve never experienced bleed or distortion.

Does this happen only with Thru machines or do you get it when using just the mixer too?

sicijk · 2014-08-02T10:30:18.000Z

I experience distortion, but i know already, because i am feeding the OT with a Line level signal.
Then I remember those +12dB when my input will be a sample…so I lower the Inp Gain on OT, or better…lower the source’s level prior the OT.

Headroom is vital in all hearing moments of life, so this applies to OT as hell.

Sometime I like what the distortion is doing to some signals…so I leave the solid orange led there.

Back to the Subject…

I do not use OT so much in this scenario.
I have done a “master processing” within OT with material all created within OT. (The Shaggs’ OT RemixLab was the reason=)

I found a lot of fun making the Master recording using the crossfader to make subtle changes on extreme settings on Compressor.

In a 4-track Bus Processor for ExtInp scenario, I would just leave these advices:

• get a couple of good pramps to be fed by your OT;
• feed not too hot the OT’s inputs;
• make a good balance between tracks, especially when you plan to use Scenes to modify Compressor or other things/FX that affects the level of the outgoing signal;
• have fun

MK7 · 2014-08-02T14:27:22.000Z

""danlukas"":

[quote=“MK7”]the OT’s inputs can easily distort/saturate.

the OT is so “sensitive” regarding hot signals. Even some toms can easily distort and it’s very difficult, or, as I would rather put it: annoying, to ensure that the input lights stay green.

agree. this has been frustrating for me. but it makes me wonder how guys like dateline are structuring things, as everything sounds fine running through his octatrack.

at this point for me, i’m not feeling solid about routing any or everything through the OT. [/quote]
As far as I can guess from videos, Dataline just routes the main outs of the MD through the OT, not single outs as I described. When using the main outs, you can easily adjust the MD’s output volume down to a level that the OT can handle.

@Allerian: OT user since the pre-order here as well btw, although no daily user. Of course it’s possible (when turning the MD’s volume down), but it just makes more sense to me to use a mixer for mixing of individual outs of the MD than using the OT (@topic).

dubathonic · 2014-08-07T20:27:19.000Z

The distortion/saturation question is probably worthy of a thread unto itself. Especially because there are so many ways to gainstage sound levels on all the Elektrons I’ve encountered. I’ve never had the OT’s inputs distort (as long as I’m reasonable) or bleed on me personally, but I tend to run only other Elektrons through her as stereo pairs, so maybe that keeps me out of trouble.

… Anyway, I think part of the reason I wanted to kick the original question around is because of a line I remember from somewhere in the OT manual: “Depending on the complexity of your setup you may not even need a separate mixer”, or something to that effect. Elektron manuals being notoriously terse, a suggestive line like that caught my ear. I figured it meant, you can set up the OT to do what a mixer otherwise would – along with the filtering, EQing, etc. each channel would permit.

I’d like to be able to walk into a club with the small setup the OT manual implies, plug into two channels from my OT’s master outs, and from that point onward deal with everything from my own hardware controls.

That’s basically what I do now. And I’d like to think it’s worth spending a lot of time trying to get substantially better at it.

But I don’t know mixers nearly as well as I should, and wonder if I’d be expecting too much from a multifunctional sampler that doesn’t have a dedicated mixer’s focus.