OT Arranger mute woes

smais · 2015-03-24T16:13:41.000Z

I’ve been having similar problems with arranger mutes when using THRU machines. Two work-arounds I’ve used is to make a scene that mutes the track and put that in the arranger instead. Or to make a copy of the pattern with a P-LOCK VOL 0 on the first step of the THRU machine I want to mute.

Still would be interesting to know what going on here, because sometimes the mutes work, sometimes they don’t and I can’t figure out why. I only get this on Thru and Neighbour machines. So that must be part of the puzzle.

crypticresonance · 2015-03-25T21:00:56.000Z

Ah, and now it did that with a Static track! Thru machines are most likely to fail on this regard but it behaves very hectic…

smais · 2015-03-25T21:53:36.000Z

""gbravetti"":

…Or I´m wrong and there is a hidden agenda behind all this?

The mutes in the arranger are midi mutes rather than audio mutes. The arrangers mutes ignore the trigs themselves, rather than muting the actual sound.

This can be really useful for effects tails (which are cut off by the standard audio mutes) and when sequencing external gear, for example a synth with a long release tail. Amongst other things.

I think this is where I got confused with the thru machine. When you mute the thru machines in arranger mode, it simple ignores any trigs on that track. It will continue to play, at whatever default volume is, as nothing has been triggered.

So what you can do if you want the arranger mute on a thru machine to act like an audio mute is this:

Set default vol for the thru track at 0
Put a trig on the first (or step where you want the mute to take place)
P-Lock that trig to desired track volume

The mutes in arranger mode now act like audio mutes.
This should work with neighbor machines also, but haven’t checked.

miketheman · 2015-03-26T08:10:04.000Z

""smais"":

[quote=“gbravetti”]…Or I´m wrong and there is a hidden agenda behind all this?

The mutes in the arranger are midi mutes rather than audio mutes. The arrangers mutes ignore the trigs themselves, rather than muting the actual sound.

This can be really useful for effects tails (which are cut off by the standard audio mutes) and when sequencing external gear, for example a synth with a long release tail. Amongst other things.

I think this is where I got confused with the thru machine. When you mute the thru machines in arranger mode, it simple ignores any trigs on that track. It will continue to play, at whatever default volume is, as nothing has been triggered.

So what you can do if you want the arranger mute on a thru machine to act like an audio mute is this:

Set default vol for the thru track at 0
Put a trig on the first (or step where you want the mute to take place)
P-Lock that trig to desired track volume

The mutes in arranger mode now act like audio mutes.
This should work with neighbor machines also, but haven’t checked.[/quote]
Which is kind of what I tried to express regarding its function with: ‘Mute is not Level is not Stop’.

But I didn´t have good clue then to present an workaround, as you have done very well here smais. Thanks!

And I agree personally that mutes (regarding audio) not being a bit cumbersome, would be an welcome addition inside the Arranger. As I´ve often had this kind of situation myself when doing such arrangement where I´m finding myself needing it…

I can confirm that we (Elektron) are aware of this at least.

gbravetti · 2015-03-26T13:53:49.000Z

""miketheman"":

[quote=“smais”][quote=“gbravetti”]…Or I´m wrong and there is a hidden agenda behind all this?

The mutes in the arranger are midi mutes rather than audio mutes. The arrangers mutes ignore the trigs themselves, rather than muting the actual sound.

This can be really useful for effects tails (which are cut off by the standard audio mutes) and when sequencing external gear, for example a synth with a long release tail. Amongst other things.

I think this is where I got confused with the thru machine. When you mute the thru machines in arranger mode, it simple ignores any trigs on that track. It will continue to play, at whatever default volume is, as nothing has been triggered.

So what you can do if you want the arranger mute on a thru machine to act like an audio mute is this:

Set default vol for the thru track at 0
Put a trig on the first (or step where you want the mute to take place)
P-Lock that trig to desired track volume

The mutes in arranger mode now act like audio mutes.
This should work with neighbor machines also, but haven’t checked.[/quote]
Which is kind of what I tried to express regarding its function with: ‘Mute is not Level is not Stop’.

But I didn´t have good clue then to present an workaround, as you have done very well here smais. Thanks!

And I agree personally that mutes (regarding audio) not being a bit cumbersome, would be an welcome addition inside the Arranger. As I´ve often had this kind of situation myself when doing such arrangement where I´m finding myself needing it…

I can confirm that we (Elektron) are aware of this at least.[/quote]
Great workaround Smais!
Good to hear that Miketheman. Btw, I think that AudioMutes or Mutes, should work like Scenes on the arrangement. The arranger´s row changes the scenes for you but then you can freely change them if you want. Mutes should be the same.

smais · 2015-03-26T16:25:29.000Z

""Baddcr"":

+1 but please please please don’t break the possibility of having trig mutes that leave the audio tail running as described above!!

+1 Audio mutes in the arranger would be great, but don’t get rid of midi-mutes because they are essential for me.

NRain · 2015-03-26T17:13:27.000Z

Seeing as both trig and audio mutes are clearly available within the OT, why not have an option to set either mode for both manual mutes and arranger mutes? In the case where audio mutes were used in arranger mode, the track mute indicators could follow and be manually over ridden. This would help make the arranger be a bit funner to use, especially live.

crypticresonance · 2015-03-26T19:01:19.000Z

Ah, an audio mute would be still welcome, but now I kinda understand the behaviour so it’s not some seemingly random thing anymore, thanks!

jurassic · 2016-09-22T15:26:47.804Z

Does anyone have any updates on this? Just running into this problem and really dont like how the mutes aren’t represented as actual level mutes. Trying to implement the arranger for live but do need the ability to control the mutes on the fly if needed.

Anyone got any other work arounds or know if/when this might be updated? Might just not be able to use the mutes with arranger then…

Inward · 2017-08-11T22:24:49.420Z

I have a fantastic issue with the arranger´s mute section. From a certain point in my arrangement a track keeps playing. I mute the track on the next row with same pattern. The track keeps playing over everything. I´ve looked around for trigs wich could be doing this,nothing… Last thing I did is mute all tracks on that row and pattern and it still keeps playing that track and looping it.

Inward · 2017-08-11T23:53:14.402Z

It´s all over the place now. Tracks on patterns that muted before keep playing now. Ofcours after I´ve made workarounds for the first mute issues I´m having. I´m going crazy. There is no info in the manual. Am I missing something obvious? Are there settings that alter how the mutes on the arranger work?

FiFac · 2017-08-12T02:14:28.788Z

The arranger will mute the trigs but not the track itself. I had a situation where I was using two static machines playing samples about 6-7 sec long, and when the arranger muted those tracks the samples played thru the full duration. I had to dial in the length/hold/release times to have them mute “properly.” Unsure of a workaround if the samples are looping

Inward · 2017-08-12T06:56:00.784Z

I get that. I’ve been checking all the trigs to see if I’m doing something wrong. It just seem to be weirdly looping over the next pattern. And at first it worked fine and now without actually changing anything in the pattern or track itself it starts loop on different patterns and different tracks. Only audiomuting it helps. Also I’ve tried the parameters you mentioned and they don’t help either.

Inward · 2017-08-25T00:13:52.152Z

I would like to bump this because it is driving me absolutely mad. I have come back to this track to finish it and making new stuff in the arranger making this issue come alive again. So far I have made workarounds for the parts before. But let’s face it I’m running with my head right back into the wall, and would like to know what I’ am obviously missing using the arranger’s track mutes. So please anyone using this thing extensively and using trackmutes and making it work help me…

sezare56 · 2017-08-25T00:26:51.314Z

Don’t break your head, I’m sure there are workarounds Elektronauts will find.
Can’t test these days, without Ot, but for sure in a couple of days.

What are your needs ? Can’t you deal with Banks / Patterns / Parts / Scenes…?

Inward · 2017-08-25T00:39:02.006Z

Thanks for trying to calm me down I know people here will come thru. They always do. It’s just that this track is so special to me I really want to finish it. Not only that, but, I have a lot riding on this octatrack function regarding my music. If it doesn’t work out like I initially thought, I will have to do more then some serious rethinking and replanning.

sezare56 · 2017-08-25T09:01:33.171Z

Can’t you use another pattern for your issue ?

jrnmv · 2017-08-25T15:55:38.834Z

Okay, so do as you were doing, isolate that track in question. Not sure what you have checked off as far as what could be causing the track to stay audible, but here are few suggestions that I would look at in this case:

open the audio editor, under the ATTR page, and make sure that loop mode on the sample in question is set to off
if the track in question is a recording buffer being played back, go that buffer’s recording setup page and make sure the loop setting on that page is off. Note that this is just a safeguard, as the audio editor’s setting on the ATTR page (referenced above) will override this setting on the recording setup page.
track playback setup: loop setting in this page should be set to off
amp settings: this will sound obvious, but make sure the row that crosses over that sample trig and ultimately makes it audible isn’t p-locked to INF on the Hold or Release.

Mutes in arranger mode are simply making the trigs on ROW X with X amount of steps irrelevant – but what’s more important here in your case is what has come before that particular scene. For example, if the row above it is UNmuted on the track in question, when the sequencer crosses a trig (I use “trig” loosely, b/c it could be a Trigless trig or a sample trig that could cause this track to stay audible – i.e. amp setup page settings), it could very well loop infinitely and give you this trouble. As I stated above, the other main variable here, in addition to amp related matters, is whether or not the track itself is set to loop. Keep in mind that Auto in the Loop Playback Setting page simply passes the authority on to the sample on whether it wants to loop or not. This would get back to the ATTR page in the Audio Editor that I mentioned above.

Re: pattern changing and still hearing samples from previous patterns. FUNCTION+BANK, press track in question, and look for “Start Silent” setting. Auto simply reverts to a master setting, Yes will silence the track upon pattern change, etc.

If you haven’t already, give that a go and see what happens

I hope that’s helpful in some way. In a bit of a hurry but I’ll check back later.

Cheers

Inward · 2017-08-25T19:53:01.444Z

I’m looking into it right now. I already tried a couple of that stuff before. I will get back when I have availed … or failed…

Inward · 2017-08-25T20:07:38.238Z

Turning of every loopsetting on every sample used in the project as well as on every playback menu hasn’t done anything. Also from the point I’m working at every track starts looping from the moment it starts playing. I’ve looked into plocks and i don’t see anything that could have that effect What I do see now is that the two neighbourtracks(4 and 6) have a play icon when the unit isn’t playing as well as my master. I have muted the neighbour tracks but maybe there is an issue there.?