Open the AR for 3rd party devs!

bsp · 2014-07-24T18:03:58.000Z

Elektron said that they love it when people write tools for their devices – and why wouldn’t they

The list of feature requests I alone can think of regarding e.g. pattern editing is quite long, I could not expect Elektron to implement all of these.

Now think of the feature requests that thousands of users may have…

IMHO, the best thing that Elektron could do would be to open up their devices to the outside world as much as possible.

That would mean a comprehensive sysex implementation and documentation, and full remote-controllability.

This should work in both directions, e.g. use the AR to control a 3rd party software, or use a 3rd party software to remote-control the AR.

If this is done properly, 3rd parties could develop editors that extend the feature set in all kinds of directions.

Imagine a tablet or notebook running a 3rd party software that let’s you see and edit all tracks of an entire pattern at once in realtime, i.e. when you edit something on the AR, the editor running on the device with the big screen is updated immediately, and vice cersa, if you make changes via the 3rd party editor, the AR is updated immediately.

3rd party software could also be used for all kinds of exotic/unusual things like creating delay triggers (a la MIDI delay), algorithmically generate patterns, polyrhythmically modulate p-locks, reverse, shift and transpose tracks/patterns, import other song/pattern formats, …

This would be absolutely amazing!

Sure, I bought the AR to get away from the “PC” but the reasons for that are not that I dislike big displays but rather that I enjoy pressing real buttons and using a hardware interface that is designed for a very specific purpose.

The AR firmware should (and does) support the most commonly used editing functions but why shouldn’t it be possible to use 3rd party software for unusual features, or to prepare patterns/kits, then use them in a live performance without a PC/tablet/notebook attached.

The AR has a very good interface (teething troubles aside), but Elektron cannot implement all possible non-live editing features themselves, so they should open the device for 3rd party devs!

bsp · 2014-07-24T19:26:14.000Z

a comprehensive sysex implementation and documentation, and full remote-controllability

the rest of the message just illustrates the implications this feature would have

neilbaldwin · 2014-07-24T19:56:19.000Z

Replace ‘AR’ with ‘OT’ and it’s what’s been said about that machine too for about 2 years.

Never going to happen. As much as many of us would like to see it.

bsp · 2014-07-24T20:15:50.000Z

are you, by any chance, the neil baldwin (“demon”) ?

anyways: IMHO, this is a huge missed opportunity for Elektron.

Sure, in a way, it’s a hen and egg problem: There currently is no immediately available 3rd party software similar to the ones I described.

On the other hand, it’s up to Elektron to take a leap of faith / make the first step and open up for devs to be able to write such software in the first place.

I believe that Elektron has nothing to lose if they do this but only sth to gain!

Their hardware shines as a live performance tool, additional 3rd party “offline” processing SW would not diminish this!

neilbaldwin · 2014-07-24T20:41:34.000Z

I agree with you by the way. I love what Julian/Sonic Potions has done with the LXR, for example. Open source OS and he’s also very encouraging and helpful to people to who want to fix/contribute/enhance/add new features to the LXR.

The downside to this is effective support when the OS takes several branches once people start developing features, unless done in a democratic way.

Horses-for-courses but given that pretty much all of the Elektron OSs could be considered to still be ‘in development’ (OK, maybe not the MnM/MD era so much) then it does make you wonder why you’d ignore such a missed opportunity to let the community drive your product forward with features that customers want. I think I’ve had a rant about this before so I’ll stop.

Oh, and yes, that’s me. Not heard that name for a long, long time! Good old demoscene days eh? Are you someone I might’ve known?

bsp · 2014-07-24T21:18:26.000Z

Yep, that’s why I’m not asking to open source the entire firmware, I’m just asking for a well-defined interface to the “outside world”.

Wow, so that really is you. My deepest respects!

I was active in the Amiga demoscene in the early to mid 90ies. My main contributions were “tracker” software, various intros, and, of course, meetings with fellow sceners

Rusty · 2014-07-24T21:38:21.000Z

""bsp"":

Elektron said that they love it when people write tools for their devices – and why wouldn’t they

hahahahhahahahhahahaha

nightfade · 2014-07-24T22:57:43.000Z

This is probably more suited to a new device. Elektron interface and sequencer up front and Nord Modular style environment out back. Would basically dispense with a lot of recurring requests.

guga · 2014-07-24T23:12:59.000Z

i do like open source but i’ve always been concerned about how things can degenerate in a good and bad way…
on one hand, you give the chance to the users (well, those who want to…) to put their hands on the instrument and free their imagination and come up with new features, which would probably require more time if done just by the manufacturer. this brings a lot of good things to both parties (i always think about the Monome in terms of what they’ve achieved with such, at the time, a tiny box) but on the other hand, it kind of feels like the instrument doesn’t have its soul anymore, if it makes sense…
i mean, to me, Elektron’s machines are what they are because of what they are and it would probably feel a bit different if anyone could do whatever they wanted to, a bit like violating the machine itself
i’m not saying it wouldn’t be great to have such an opportunity but the magic instruments, to me, would loose their magicness

ps: it’s getting late here…apologies for the somewhat phylosophical post

Alex · 2014-07-24T23:47:15.000Z

won’t happen. wouldn’t want it to, either. too much potential for unstable software. also, there aren’t enough elektron users to truly justify it. i think the limitations of the gear yield its character… that’s always been the elektron way… and its a good thing.

its the same portion of the brain that determines whether a person truly prefers either Mac or PC…

amiga303 · 2014-07-25T12:46:54.000Z

was in the amiga demoscene too
yes, they won’t let this happen. or: lets face most users do not care about that stuff. jjOS is not installed on all MPC machines either - I’d guess on most. but hey, thats fair, i am not using linux either cause it takes me too much time and I am not interested in OS programming.

there was minicommand by ruin & wesen. they decoded pretty much the whole MD sysex, source is still available somewhere.
so its possible for sure.

elektron is not about democracy. come on. its a business too. u have to serve the majority of potential buyers, and they rather want easy gear. for business its better to be brand of your own, be able to sell a new product for something u could integrate in an older one, etc.

on the other hand they are around since a pretty long time, and music hardware business surely isnt easy for a small company.

division · 2020-06-05T19:56:15.715Z

Amiga Rulez!