Octatrack + Tempest - weird glitch, not sure which machine

Hey all.

This is a question for people that use both of these machines together (
I posted this over at DSI forum too) I’m not sure if this is a bug in the arrangement mode of the OT or if it’s some version of a Tempest bug I’ve read about where triggering a beat on the Tempest from a master causes it to miss the first beat (something which I actually haven’t actually had an issue with … until today)

In this set up (my live rig), I primarily use the Tempest as a synth / drum module running through the OT but now I’m working towards triggering sequences in the Tempest from the OT transport controls as well. (FYI: I start and end songs on an infinite loop on the OT and then scroll down to the next row and select “yes” to start the next song / sequence / pattern).

This has been working fine in my short test projects (one arrangement per song), but now that I’m building an arrangement for a full live show I’ve noticed that the more rows contained in the OT arrangement, the more the Tempest clock starts to wander - or rather it triggers late.

An arrangement with about ten rows or less works fine. Every line I can trigger a sequence by pressing “play” or “yes”. After about ten rows, the Tempest starts slightly behind - noticeable when percussion areas overlap on the OT and the Tempest. Once I get passed 30 rows, it’s a mess. Scrolling down on the OT to the next arrangement row (the “start” of my next song) and pressing “yes” starts the Tempest somewhere around bar 4 or 5 or 6 on the sequence (this appears random). If I stop the arrangement and scroll to the row with playback stopped, just pressing “yes” (arming the row to play once I hit “play”) makes the tempest beat counter jump to a random bar before the damn thing even starts. By pressing stop on the Tempest the counter resets, but then once the sequence is triggered on the OT it is a full beat behind. A great “sneakers in the dryer” sound.

I can re create this bug on any one of the short arrangements now that I’ve started to add rows to all of them just to check. Strangely enough on some of the test arrangements after about 20 rows, every second row on the OT will start the Tempest at 1. 1. 1. (and still be screwy on the alternate rows) but even then once I get to about 40 rows, it’s all a mess again.

My work around is obviously to go back to keeping arrangements shorter but man I was getting pretty excited about building a whole set in one arrangement! The less re loading / changing the better. I’ve also discovered that I can have an empty beat on the Tempest trigger first (and be f’d up but silent) and then switch to my actual beat and have it come in on time - but this requires me building funny pattern lengths in the OT to embrace this bug and I don’t really feel comfortable depending on the bug acting consistent in a live environment.

So what’s going on?!!

Thanks in advance! Sorry for the essay.

i don’t have a tempest, or really use arrange mode much, but it could be the midi song position pointer sent by arranger is messing it up? it sounds like maybe the tempest is trying to follow where in the song the octatrack is and that’s messing up the timing.

is there another way to start patterns on the tempest, like with midi notes? or to disable this on the tempest?

Hey Jonah, thanks for replying. Hmm midi song position pointer - that could be it. I guess there’s no way for me to … access that?

Someone on the DSI forum said that they had the same problem with the OT arranger and their MPC so I guess that may rule out the Tempest in this case.

Anyways, there are a few work arounds I’ve cooked up - namely going back to multiple short arrangements as oppose to one big long one or to have an empty beat loaded in the Tempest and drop my desired beat in after one cycle which seems to work (though is slightly scary).

Not to mention just recording said sequences to a flex machine and not worrying about it after that haha.

The Tempest has the wonderful bug where it can’t receive Clock and Note data at the same time. As great as the Tempest is, DSI does not seem to give a shit about it. They, like Elektron, are to busy cranking out new gear to fix their old stuff.

Yeah, cause they can, cause the industry’s weak.

Easy guys!

I love my machines and can work around some bugs here and there. The things they CAN do blows me away on a daily basis.

hey travor, i have both machines and will try to recreate this bug. i’ll be back soon.
did i get it right? i’ll just make 30 -40 rows of something and looking for time issues?

EDIT:
ok i tried adding 40 rows with blank pattens only metronome on both. no timing issue. what is an issue if you press PLAY on OT and then press PLAY again without pressing STOP. the tempest doesn’t know where we are and gets messed up. but no timing issues if you press Stop and then play (this is how basic MIDI handles most of song positions). i had 4bars on the tempest and 2 bars pattern on the OT- nothing strange… perhaps you should write me a pm with step by step to recreate this bug?
i know it sound silly but did you try another MIDI cable?

Yeah, for percentages of your annual income.

Hey thanks Van, that’s mighty kind. I’ll shoot you a detailed pm either tonight or tomorrow when I’m back in front of my gear with some time :slight_smile:

I had a weird thing when i had my octatrack giving clock to monomachine and then to machinedrum… something simular as you…

the fix here was weird… it had to do with which one you turn on first…
(I think i had to turn on octatrack first, then monomachine, then machinedrum)

weirdly enough, if i just connect my machinedrum… no weirdness… then again… i do not use arranger that much lately… and that was the one that was a bit weird.

Thanks Dreamer - how I wish that would have solved it. I’ve sent a pm to Van with more details, but just to keep the thread up to date (I’m constantly reading through old threads to find solutions to things) I’ll post a brief summary:

I’ve discovered that regardless of arrangement length, simply arming an arrangement row (pressing “yes” on the OT) cause the Tempest beat counter to jump to a new number - even if OT patterns and Tempest beats are blank and empty.

If I press “stop” on the Tempest after I arm the row, the counter resets back to 1. 1. 1. and then when I press “play” on the OT everything is good. However, once I get to row 40 or 50, pressing “stop” on the Tempest still resets the beat counter to 1.1.1 but the beat comes in late or off time. Only sometimes of course just to drive me crazy. Grrr.

Van is going to try to re create the Tempest beat counter issue and I’m currently rebuilding the whole project into a new project and arrangement to see if the bug is just tied somehow that project / arrangement. I have solved other random bugs by switching sets / projects…

hmm… I hope you can get it all working… I got no more knowledge to contribute about this… Except… there was a dude on the forum, that used the arranger to play back giant samples for his band… he said he had weird troubles with it… after “big number” loops…

cant remember details though… or if / how he fixed it…

good luck on your quest

I sold my Tempest because bugs like this and the lack of attention to fix the most basic midi functions…make it a pain to run it with other gear like mpc´s

so much potential in that machine…will wait to the end of the year to check again the current state on the OS

Thanks Dreamer. Now that I’m doing random things to try to squish it I’ve discovered that the Tempest beat counter only jumps out of sync once my arrangement rows increase in length.

For instance if all the rows are at 16 LN no problem. If they’re all at 32 or 64 no problem. If one row is 64 and the next row is 16, no problem but as soon as it increases (that 16 LN row goes into a row that’s 32 or 64), the counter is off for the rest of the arrangement - though it still tends to remain in transport synch (even though the counter shows an off number) until about row 50.

edit: this only happens when the increase is from 16 to a higher number. Going from a 32 row to a 64 row does not make the Tempest jump.

My current work around is that I’ve simply limited my arrangements to 50 rows and even though the Tempest counter displays an off number, it works. So a solution for my upcoming show but I’m going to keep working at it.

I’m running a midi diagnostic tool today to see what that tells me.