Octatrack -- Songwriting (radiohead sound)

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

Heh

I am thinking of buying an OT.

However, there are a few issues that i need to gain clarity on if anyone can help, thanks

This is what i want the OT to do:

  • I want to be able to record guitars into it (either live or as a backing track, to a click track… whatever works in OT)
  • I want to be able to overdub sequence OT goodness over the top of this… so samples, loops, some mid keyboards, vocals
    -I also want to be able to do it the other way round… ie start with the sequenced drums etc., then lay all the audio stuff over the top
  • i then want to be able to arrange the structure if required
  • and then to mix it down into some sort of finished work (stem)

Is all this possible#? And if so, can some tell me how to do it… workflow wise…as i can’t seem to find anyone online who actually describes the wholle songwriting/recording process

i usually end up with a radioheady type sound when playing elctric stuff… so this is what i want the OT to be able to do

is this possible?

thanks in advance

david

1 Like
#2

Welcome to the forum. Yeah all of that is doable, it’s basically exactly what OT does so it’s a bit like asking “how do I use an octatrack?”. You might want to just sit down with one and use it for a bit and take it one question at a time. If you have more specific questions like “how do I overdub” people can help more easily, but in short yes octatrack can sample, overdub, sequence, arrange and mix. The only thing you might find is better suited to something else would be recording midi piano with it, it’s doable but the relatively low PPQ and midi polyphony means you’d be fighting the box a bit trying to get it to record piano parts, best suited to just sampling audio you need. The midi sequencer will certainly have you doing things you can’t do with a piano anyway.

Also if you want Radiohead sound I’m selling a mint Ed O’Brien Fender strat cheap, just saying

5 Likes
#3

hi and welcome onboard. as @jb already mentioned, yes this is all pretty much doable with the OT. best would be to either get one and try things out yourself as your workflow might differ from others or just watch some of the yt videos/check here on the forum for some help.

#4

I think the OT is perfect for what you‘re looking for. I use it for my own little mediocre Thom Yorke tracks. You will however need a preamp to record guitar and vocals as the input will be too quiet otherwise. I use a cheap Art tube preamp that works perfectly for this purpose

3 Likes
#5

one thing I really love about using the OT for songwriting is that it forces me to commit to ideas as opposed to saving 300 different takes

4 Likes
#6

Tell that to my 300 projects :smile:

10 Likes
#7

Haha :smiley: :smiley:

#8

cool, thanks for the info

#9

Thanks for getting back

Yes, i have watched a whole load of vids on the OT and DT, DN… so have a decent grasp of what it can do sequencing wise… and possible audio wise

Let me be more specific then… let’s take an imagined song that i need to record down… It’s gonna last say 5 minutes.

–so ist i wanna lay the guitar down (to a click track)
– then after say, 1 minute… i wanna insert some sequenced stuff (audio effects, keyboard stuff… etc)
–then say at 2.30 i wanna insert a 2nd guitar and backing vocals (for the chorus type thing)
–then at 3mins i wanna include some looped guitar, building textures… and some more sequenced stuff
– then at 4.20… i’m gonna cut away most of the track…into an ambient type thing… and build it back up into a 2nd chorus… so more overdubded guitars, vocals and sequenced audio effects
– then it’s gonna go to some sort of resolution… with maybe a build up of sequenced drums or whatever… synths, looped fade out stuff

so yeah… that would be how i would like to use the OT… But i can’t see anyone on YT etc outlining how this can be done… what the process would be, what i would need to do exactly on the OT to make this happen …

?

cheers

d

#10

good to know, thanks… i just need the exact techniques … how to make it happen on OT…

also, if i record a guitar rythmn track on track 1… is it possible to keep this playing BUT, use the OT sequencer say, a minute later? ie… won’t the sequencer be tied up by playing my guitar part sample?

cheers

#11

The sequencer for track 1 will be busy playing the sample, basically. You have 8 audio tracks. Change to another track and use the sequencer for whatever you want to do. The sequencer is not shared, you have one for each track = 8 for audio and 8 for Midi.

1 Like
#12

wow! really? that’s cool :slight_smile: that has started to make things a whole lot clearer…

…and so those separate sequencer tracks can be inserted at any point along say a 5min song? (ie the length of the original guitar backing track)

#13

Yes! Absolutely :slight_smile: and welcome!

#14

thanks again… but how would i sync the inserted sequencer track(s)… is there a special command in oT that does that… or do i do it by ear?

Also, if i wanted to record (and playback) say 6, separate audio tracks in that imagined 5 minute song (say even, each track lasting the full 5 mins – so 30 mins effectively of recorded audio)… could the OT do that? would i need to buy a big SD card or something?

#15

the tracks always exist, you dont insert them. the tracks are always there with their own designated button, whether you use them or not. you need to think less in terms of time and more in patterns. say you have an idea for a song you can set each patterns length, max of 4 bars but you can chain patterns together. you can set every track to be the same or have individual lengths and speeds for each of them.

I really would explain fully but it very quickly dissolves into confusing territory, its actually awfully simple but when you try to explain it over the internet it sort of turns into a big jumble that noone can really understand without doing it. I feel you’d have a hard time really grasping it without actually sitting with an OT even using the designated manual so i’m certainly not going to do it justice in a single comment.

in short yes OT can do everything you’re asking, you can stream from CF card meaning you can play back ridiculously long files if you want. but to be honest though with the approach you seem to want to take why not use a DAW? it would be much easier to use for that type of songwriter

1 Like
#16

Octatrack really isn’t ideal for recording long audio takes/tracks; as jb said above, better to think in terms of patterns than a DAW-like timeline–that’s more MPC territory.

2 Likes
#17

I often use my OT in a very similar way as you’re describing and it works really well. Like you, I searched around for clear examples of how to do what I wanted to do. This is where the OT is something of a leap of faith. It’s really hard to explain what the OT even is because it’s potentially a bunch of things depending on who’s using it. Some say the learning curve is a breeze, but I found it to be a bit steep. I had to temporarily abandon my original and start with the basics. For a few days I just loaded samples and used it as a drum machine and it’s a great drum machine. Next conditional trigs. Awesome. The Scenes. SCENES! I couldn’t have cared less about song modes because scenes were more creative and fun. Then I started learning to live sample and do all the things I bought it for in the first place. Took a couple months and was time well spent.
A year later and the OT is the hub of everything. I sample and loop live bass guitar, sequence my modular, A4 and MicroMonsta. I run all my audio through it live. I love it to pieces, but we definitely had to learn to get along :slight_smile:

1 Like
#18

The key to working in the way you want on the OT is its Arranger mode. This is basically a time sequence of patterns.

Patterns contain the triggers that play the 8 audio tracks and the 8 MIDI sequencer tracks. The audio tracks can play short samples like individual drum hits, loops of up to 4 bars, or stereo files of any length from the OT’s Compact Flash card, which has a maximum capacity of 64 GB.

So the OT can do what you say you want. The main limitation might be in recording, because the OT can only record to its onboard RAM capacity (85.5 MB). You would then save the recordings to the CF card for playback.

I’m a big fan of the OT but you need to think about why you are suggesting it as your solution when a more conventional means like a computer DAW or standalone multitrack audio record (or even another sample) might fit your needs better.

4 Likes
#19

While the OT can do what you want you’ll need to start thinking differently.

You need to start thinking in (fixed length) patterns (which may or may not loop) and a quite rigid time grid. So even if you have some experiences with a DAW working with the OT is completely different.

As @PeterHanes already said: I’m not sure if the OT is the right tool. Of course it can do what you want, but there are technical limits especially it onboard RAM size and the inability to record directly to the CF card.

With 24 bit/44.1kHz you can record a little bit more than 5 minutes before the RAM is full (when no other stuff uses RAM). To free it up you need to stop whatever you are doing, save the recording to the CF card and assign it to a static machine before you can continue. So when you want to non-destructively (no overdub) layer minutes long stems above stems your workflow becomes quite, let’s say, “non-flowing”.

As a pattern oriented step sequencer the OT fits much better into a kind of “programming” (or pre-programmed) workflow than free-style jamming along. There is a reason why you can’t find videos demonstrating the workflow you are looking for …

(and don’t get me wrong: I love my OT, too)

4 Likes
#22

Sorry for those multiple posts and deletes…

So I did a short one pattern jam on the OT to demonstrate that a Radiohead like sound can be achieved with relative ease.

The drums are mostly stock samples, the vocal sample was recorded with a mic through a preamp into the OT. The drone in the 2nd clip is a Monotron Delay recorded into the OT

2 Likes