Octatrack Recording... at the correct, professional volume

Dom · 2013-10-25T00:34:14.000Z

The four blinking dots (input AB and CD) representing left and right (stereo) are helpful, but an animated recording level with L/R representation in the Recording set-up menus would prove to be a whole lot more helpful…

I want to record at the highest volume without clipping (over/at 0db?), right? For me, it’s hard to tell realistically with the four blinking dots, as the information is severely limited. I still believe it’s better to record too low than too high, yes?

I know we have an option to normalize audio, but I’m under the impression to do so only to save a quiet recording, a short clip/one sound/one tone… The reason being is that normalization will take most (or all?) of the dynamics. Am I wrong?

Please correct me if I’m wrong in my thinking. I would like to know, which of these few recordings is recorded at a correct, professional volume. They are unnormalized. The gain was set at 0 on the Octatrack. I recorded the same song to keep it “scientific”.

Vinyl player > 1/8toDual 1/4 > Octatrack AB

From lowest to highest:

Test03 - Fairly consistent yellow lights to my eyes.
Test07 - Some red flashing with consistent yellow light.
Test100 - Lots of red flashes with some yellow light (recorded from vinyl player at its full volume)

What range of db should I be recording within? Is it something to test with other music alongside? Or is there an across-the-board answer, safe answer?

I would really appreciate some insight from you, Elektronauts, into this admittedly basic problem that may be easy for you to help with.

How do you set-up your recording levels, both on external gear (what is it?) and on the Octatrack, do you change the gain settings?)

Cheers!

sicijk · 2013-10-25T09:24:10.000Z

Listen to a reference sine wave from your DAW (start from -20dBfs) and with a good pair of headphones listen the sine wave with DIRECT OUT of the OT’s Mixer.

I believe the leds are nearly to yellow/red …but listen the sine…if it gets upper harmonics, then the OT’s A/D conversion stage has been probably overdriven the inputs (read: clipping)

But…i feel the OT’s gives some spice to this nasty and avoid-every-time-is-possible situation!

Regarding Normalization…dont be worry about it…at least: it doesn’t alter relative dynamics.

Because Normalization only shifts everything up until the loudest peak in the whole file reaches -0dBfs, and it stops…so if you have recorded something already clipped (even the smallest amount of samples), than Normalizatuion will do nothing.

Compressor and Expander are dynamic processors that alter the relative dynamics.

Regarding your recordings:

i would go for TEST 07 and maybe a Normalization.
OR, when i feel more brave, with TEST 09 since the sound gets full without needing for another post-process.

Also, since the sampled material…i would not care a lot if sometimes leds go to sporadic red (not consistent like in TEST 100 where you actually hear the real digital clipping)

Dom · 2013-10-27T03:26:57.000Z

Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply and help me!

Do you maintain or regularly change the settings of the noise gate* and/or gain settings on the Octatrack? The noise gate could kill out some unwanted outboard gear “floor noise”/cable noise (yes?) and the gain settings would either boost the Octatrack texture or take away from the Octatrack sound?

Also, on my Octatrack, after I record something and go to the attributes… The gain is automatically set at +12, and I have to manually change it to 0. Is there a reason for this and why, or am I special? I’m assuming I want it at 0 or maybe below 0. I don’t know…

sicijk · 2013-10-27T06:15:13.000Z

The sampled material gets +12dB due to the internal gain structure of the OT.
There is a passage on the manual.
Keep in mind that is an internal gain boost, i mean …the file is not affected…Only if you (EDIT tab of AudioEditor) Normalize;Cut/Boost there…then your file will be permanently changed.
And all depends on what you need to do with the sampled material.
If you want only to digitalize vinyls, then Normalize only and get that fiel from the AudioPool.

About the NoiseGate…i dont use it . Because if i need clean audio i will strip it in DAW.
I prefer to have noises instead of not. Sometimes they can gift you some nice sparkle carpets if boosted properly.

bozobreak · 2013-10-28T14:23:04.000Z

I’ve read it here, or on the old forum a great trick that I use since:
Let say you start sampling on track 1 with flex machine.
You put a rec trig on step 1.
Then a playback trig on the same track, same step playing the same sample that you are recording with the flex machine.
Then you hit edit this sample and you have a graphic visualization of the waveform.
Always refreshing as the sequencer goes around.
Well, it was better described in the old post…

secretmusic · 2013-10-30T13:32:27.000Z

I know this may sound a bit corny, and maybe pretentious, but if I had one piece of advice to give you regarding this, it is the following :

trust your ears

the metering in the OT is useless. If you really want to know how loud you can go, I would suggest the trick mentioned above, where you can monitor the waveform being recorded in real time, and find out which LED color means “clipping”. I have found that I can reliably go into the red without actually clipping, making this metering completely unreliable.

Just like anything else in the OT, you are encouraged to rely on your ears more than your eyes. Doesn’t make it right though, and I too wish that we could get proper metering.

sicijk · 2013-10-31T10:48:56.000Z

""secretmusic"":

if I had one piece of advice to give you regarding this, it is the following :

trust your ears

Just like anything else in the OT, you are encouraged to rely on your ears more than your eyes.

Wise…Wise words!

Ocatrack is an adventure friend,and like in every adventure you have to trust your senses =)

thetechnobear · 2020-07-12T14:26:02.037Z

an old topic, but no reason to create a new one

generally, Im pretty happy/familiar with the OT and its gain staging, but I’ve got a question about the noise gate…

I’ve noticed the OT (mk2) seems to like signals to come in pretty hot ( I aim for orange leds approx - but look at AED to see what levels are recording.

but if I push my modular to this level I get a small amount of noise coming in. it’s low compare to the signal… and I can only notice in headphones, when there is ‘silence’.
(unfortunately, its not a ‘nice’ noise, its some digital whine)

if I set the noise gate to -70db its completely killed, and honestly I cannot really hear the noise gate kicking in with things like external reverb tails - so it sounds ok.
but…I’m a bit wary of using a noise gate - should i be?

the alternative, is sending in a quieter signal, where i cannot hear the noise, even if i amplify in the OT, and perhaps drop other tracks (samples) levels a bit too.
but this is not quite as ‘convenient’ , as just using the noise gate

thoughts?

tnussb · 2020-07-12T21:09:45.646Z

thetechnobear:

but…I’m a bit wary of using a noise gate

Why? That’s exactly the reason why the noise gate functionality exists: to cancel any unwanted noise floor when there is no signal.

thetechnobear · 2020-07-12T21:29:45.899Z

Yeah, that’s why I came to discuss it

I guess I was wondering how often people use it - is it a ‘last resort’ or something that is commonly used to solve these kinds of issues.

Supercolor_T-120 · 2020-07-13T12:55:52.743Z

Going back to the OP, in 24 but the “professional” level wouldn’t be as loud as possibl without clipping, it would be peaking somewhere between -12dBFS adn -18dBFS depending on taste. The OT handles this silently with the whole “everything is padded 12dB on the way in and then the files are automatically boosted 12dB” thing. Not so optimal in 16 bit though, since even if you assume a theoretically perfect converter that delivers the full 16 bits of dynamic resolution you’re still getting 14 bits at most when you factor in the 12db pad. At 24 bit it’s pretty much irrelevant (and even at 16 bit how much it matters depends a lot on the source material and the context you’re using it in).

roadmoviemusic · 2020-07-13T13:18:14.302Z

Absolutely. For those interested:

http://www.aes.org/technical/documentDownloads.cfm?docID=65