Octatrack - Feedback Loop - Dub like king tubby - for real

mpanalog · 2023-12-30T12:06:48.321Z

You can record CUE internally, and play it with a FLEX instead of a Thru. That way you benefit from SRC parameters like pitch, rate, len, retrig…

That is true, 2 reasons why I chose to go out with a cable:
a) My incompetency when getting to the record functions of Octatrack, haven’t yet found the time to explore and add it to my thoughtflow Also, I mainly use the Octa to perform live and I haven’t really felt the confidence to use the record functions on stage, but again, haven’t spent the time…

b) I deconstructed the main idea of the dub loop so I blindly/dumbly connected the output to the input but another aspect that led me to this is that you can still connect your favorite delay, filter, chorus whatever in the loop. So with the cable, I think there’s more freedom instead of staying 100% in the box.

But yea, of course if you want to stay 100% inside Octatrack this makes sense! Great idea

mpanalog · 2023-12-30T12:20:42.281Z

T T: C panned right, D panned left
N N
N N
T M: input from A B or any other static or flex sample here.

Umm that’s a good idea but I didn’t quite get the routing, could you explain it a bit more?

impbox · 2023-12-30T12:27:51.324Z

Basically the left tracks are for the left feedback and the right tracks are for the right feedback.
T4 is for input or sample playback.
T8 is master.

It works pretty much the same as your setup.
T1 listens to input C and pans it right so next loop it goes to the opposite side.
T2 listens to input D and pans it left.
The neighbour tracks are just for FX and T3 and T7 send the feedback back to the cue outputs and to main output too so you can hear them.

sezare56 · 2023-12-30T12:36:10.331Z

mpanalog:

I blindly/dumbly connected the output to the input

That make sense and I do it sometimes.

mpanalog:

you can still connect your favorite delay, filter, chorus whatever in the loop. So with the cable, I think there’s more freedom instead of staying 100% in the box.

Yes, I especially like to use analog distortions. But you can also use Recorder + Flex instead of a Thru track.

With sampling the feedback loop can be repitched, reversed, so you can get very interesting results like these :

Some other feedback ideas.

Feedback loop ideas thread Octatrack

CUE feedback with comb filters, recording ABCD for noise, nothing plugged, no samples, one bar pattern moving crossfader.

Anyway, thanks for feedback !
Feels like I gonna kill my ears today…

mpanalog · 2023-12-30T12:44:12.487Z

impbox:

Basically the left tracks are for the left feedback and the right tracks are for the right feedback.

Ah I get it now, yea great, I maybe would also mono that so that you use the different timings in the same channel it’s dub after all, mono is still good!

sezare56:

With sampling the feedback loop can be repitched, reversed, so you can get very interesting results like these :

Hahah this is sick! I have to find the time to dig that, very very interesting!

Feedback loop ideas thread

CUE feedback with comb filters, recording ABCD for noise, nothing plugged, no samples, one bar pattern moving crossfader.

Yea, for no-input, what I figured is that if you use T7 compressor from my setup and you just smash the nothingness you get a lot of Octa noise while staying in the loop! (utilizing all the modulations etc…)

sezare56:

Anyway, thanks for feedback !
Feels like I gonna kill my ears today…

Haha, take care!

Nordfunk · 2023-12-30T12:50:02.632Z

Thanks for the great ideas! What USB to midi -host you are using for the LaunchControl and does it get it´s power from the host?

mpanalog · 2023-12-30T12:54:42.668Z

Hey!

I’m using this:

synthesizer.gr

Kenton Midi Usb Host MK III

DescriptionYour USB device is plugged into the USB MIDI Host mkIII instead of into a computer. It provides MIDI In & Out sockets for USB MIDI keyboards and controllers which have only a USB B type socket. For example, used with a USB-Solo, it...

It needs external power! Has never failed me fwiw

sezare56 · 2023-12-30T13:27:26.307Z

mpanalog:

mono is still good!

If you put 2 cables between CUE LR and CD, your setup is stereo.

impbox:

separate buses for left and right so you can have pingpong with different lengths and different effects on each side

Interesting, I used that principle to get a true stereo reverb (OT reverbs sum LR before processing, as most of reverbs).
But I prefer to keep a single stereo bus.

mpanalog · 2023-12-30T13:47:32.731Z

sezare56:

If you put 2 cables between CUE LR and CD, your setup is stereo.

Yea sure, I mean in case you don’t want the ping pong (which I kinda find gimmicky to be there all the time) you can sum to mono and just have the different timings on the Center channel. I might not be right cause I didn’t set it up to see how it works, just an idea. Now that I think of it though u can just not pan, anyway, I’ll have to test it to be sure.

sezare56 · 2023-12-30T15:46:23.861Z

Example with CUE recording + Flex. Basic loop at the begining, then feedback loop.
T1 : Drums
T2 : Chords

T6 : CUE rec + Flex, pitch +12, lfos on filter, balance, delay time
Filter + Dark Reverb
T7 : CUE rec + Flex, a random retrig pitch +12, lfos on filter, balance, delay time
Filter + Ping Pong Delay

T8 Master : Compressor

Ulysses · 2023-12-30T16:10:26.486Z

What are you using between the OT’s Midi DIN input, and the Launch Control’s USB Midi port?

Andreas_R · 2023-12-30T18:11:50.671Z

Thanks brother! I was looking into ways to use the OT as a FX like emulating different pedals. And an awesome delay was of course on the list too!
🩶

Nordfunk · 2023-12-30T19:37:40.204Z

Kenton MIDI USB Host MK III

mpanalog · 2023-12-30T19:49:57.608Z

Andreas_R:

Thanks brother! I was looking into ways to use the OT as a FX like emulating different pedals. And an awesome delay was of course on the list too!

Yeap! Needless to say that you can use this with live input as well making it a very powerful delay pedal… You can dub a band playing live even with some sends from the console

russv · 2023-12-31T03:12:09.080Z

Thanks for this concept. Setup a new template and having a lot of fun with it. I run OTO Biscuit as cue FX and adding neighbor tracks to the mix is great!

CountDooku · 2024-01-02T00:52:02.612Z

When I do this the playback of cue is one loop cycle behind instead of playing back the buffer immediately. Am I doing something wrong?

sezare56 · 2024-01-02T03:27:24.299Z

CountDooku:

the playback of cue is one loop cycle behind instead of playing back the buffer immediately

That’s normal. It allows you to pitch the sound up. If you want “direct” playback, add +1 microtiming to the trig, timestretch off. Add more microtiming with timestretch on.

Ulysses · 2024-01-02T04:15:11.620Z

Nothing was locked to a master clock. Not the people. Not the FX. Not the tape machine. How can we recreate that flow? 2 OT plays free of unquantized loops, no midi sync?

mpanalog · 2024-01-02T10:42:12.289Z

Ulysses:

Nothing was locked to a master clock. Not the people. Not the FX. Not the tape machine. How can we recreate that flow? 2 OT plays free of unquantized loops, no midi sync?

That’s super easy with the Octatrack…

Let’s say that you want to dub 4-5 songs, pick a tempo and stick to it (cause this will affect your delay timings)

Other than that just use full-length stems (for all these songs) that all start together with a ONCE trig. This will tell Octatrack to fire the tracks, and stream them (static) from the SD card without quantizing locking anything, they will just run freely and you’ll be able to dub them however you want. So no quantize whatsoever there…

Now for the delays, you will have to perfect your craft at manipulating the delay time knob, much like you would do with a space echo unit or any other delay unit that does not lock on any clock…

Again, I have created this so you can use your favorite delay instead of Octatrack delay, just make sure it’s set to 0% Feedback (1 repeat), If you want to go full king tubby you might as well hook up a tape machine with repro head delay whatever you like!

I had to quickly loop something just for the sake of the example hence the lock…

mpanalog · 2024-04-06T15:03:28.936Z

I’m returning to this after a bit of time, I rerouted all the setup to use the buffer feedback vs the cable feedback. I have to say, although the FLEX magic gives you many capabilities the overall internal noise buildup is too much…

When I tried getting longer delays and feeding the loop with more sound the noisefloor kept building up to a point where it was too much even for more dirty styles of music. The cable/CUE patch does have noise too but it’s more controllable.

Given the fact that you are going to need compressors to control the levels (to have more repeats or oscillation) you have the biproduct of compression where the noisefloor will be raised…

Overall I think the buffer feedback technique is great for other styles of music, much like the excerpt/track that you shared which is really unique and amazing… for this more “straightforward” use/example I think that the cable provides a more friendly environment.

Next stop for my feedback journey will be cross feedback with an Octatrack dedicated as the ultimate delay machine… If only I had the time

Thanks again, I learned a lot using the buffer feedback and created great ideas!