Octatrack blocks SysEx?

theSkeve · 2014-01-15T01:04:34.000Z

So I have some gear that I need to use SysEx to control all of its parameters.

I am 100% aware that the Octatrack does not allow for SysEx in Ctrl parameters, etc. I’m not trying to send any of SysEx from Octatrack, etc.

What I am trying to do instead is send info from my iPad -> DAW -> OT midi in -> Midi Thru -> synth…

And it doesn’t work. I have confirmation on my DAW that it is receiving midi, and I am able to transmit notes from my iPad to my synth via the OT midi thru, so I know the info is getting through.

but when I try to send info to change parameters…nothing.

So is this just a flaw of the OT? Does it eat up / completely block SysEx? How is that even possible considering MIDI was standardized in 1983? Why is it blocking SysEx info?

Please tell me there is just a setting that I’m missing.

EDIT: the problem was something else on my midi signal chain. will post here when I figure out what it was

avantronica · 2014-01-15T11:03:16.000Z

it’s something at your end to investigate i think - the OT i have running 1.25b does not block sysex through the Thru port !

glaciertree · 2014-01-15T12:58:46.000Z

I saw this as well at one point. I was not able to get sysex for external synths to go through the OT MIDI out.

@avantronica - I don’t remember if I tried MIDI thru, I will have to try it.

avantronica · 2014-01-15T14:44:17.000Z

it won’t come through the OUT !, them there’s the rulez

theSkeve · 2014-01-15T18:04:13.000Z

""glaciertree"":

I saw this as well at one point. I was not able to get sysex for external synths to go through the OT MIDI out.

@avantronica - I don’t remember if I tried MIDI thru, I will have to try it.

Glad I’m not alone!

""avantronica"":

it’s something at your end to investigate i think - the OT i have running 1.25b does not block sysex through the Thru port !

well it’s definitely not on my end, as the editors / other parts of my chain have been working great for over a year. OT is the only new part and I think that isolates the problem pretty well. And as I mentioned in my original post, I am using “Thru”. I have no expectations for it to work from “Out”
I’m not sure if I’m running 1.25b or not, so I will double check that, thanks!

avantronica · 2014-01-15T18:14:43.000Z

you could most easily check that the sysex is getting through the DAW (not Live) by taking the Midi In currently going to the OT and plugging that straight into the Synth - if that works and reconnecting the OT just before the synth stops it then you can start to look at the OT (or cables), but the OT should allow the Thru passing of valid Sysex messages sent to the In !

theSkeve · 2014-01-15T20:30:26.000Z

hmm well i just tried it again and it WORKED!

not sure why though, i didn’t change anything…

I will report back if it stops working and i can isolate the issue…but for now i am happy haha

glaciertree · 2014-01-16T00:23:43.000Z

hmm… I’ll have to try that again. It has been a while, maybe I missed something.

theSkeve · 2014-01-16T02:26:18.000Z

""glaciertree"":

hmm… I’ll have to try that again. It has been a while, maybe I missed something.

well to clarify, it still doesn’t work via Out, only via Thru. I changed the cable back and forth. Midi notes passed through both methods, but only Thru passed sysex.
I think what may have happened this time around is that i connected my ipad to my daw via WiFi, not via usb.

glaciertree · 2014-01-16T23:26:13.000Z

thanks for mentioning that. I haven’t had a chance to play with that again yet, but I will have to try using Thru. Swapping one cable from out to thru is much easier than individually repatching everything I have one by one into my midi interface. Not as good as out working, but I can deal with that.

avantronica · 2014-01-17T09:30:27.000Z

to be fair though, the Out port is really not meant to work like that at all … see here

miketheman · 2014-01-17T11:00:10.000Z

""avantronica"":

to be fair though, the Out port is really not meant to work like that at all … see here

Avantronica is correct.

However, it should also be known that some manufacturers are releasing products where you internally (mostly via software) are able to decide if Out will function as Thru (merging internally made MIDI transmissions with what comes at the input). Thereby they´re able to save some cost, or advertize it as being a little bit more advanced than competitors. Others, may have the option that allow you to choose if Thru port will function as an second Out port (routing internally made MIDI, while filtering what comes at the input).

So in that view, it´s not surprising if some expects the Thru/Output to have a slightly different function than what the MIDI standard says. They may have come across one of those products which made them believe that what they had in their units were the MIDI standard.

Anyway, glad you seem to have sorted it out…

theSkeve · 2014-01-17T19:31:25.000Z

to be clear…

I NEVER EXPECTED FOR SysEx TO WORK VIA OUT…only THRU.

i’m pretty familiar with midi and its implementation, both in hardware and software. I design interfaces for controlling stuff via typical midi info, sysex, and nrpn.

it’s something on my end/chain, which I hope to isolate and share in case others come across it.

thanks for the posts…and a soft midi thru would be a welcome feature, especially if it could be turned on/off for specific tracks

miketheman · 2014-01-20T08:20:02.000Z

it’s something on my end/chain, which I hope to isolate and share in case others come across it.

This is what I´m hoping as well.

That´s why I´m sharing the knowledge/experience of some manufacturers occasionally deviation in some of their products. It always strikes me with a bit of surprise whenever I come across these units, but that´s definitely just because I´m aware of what the MIDI standard is (being as geeky as I am). Otherwise I probably wouldn´t even have noticed the deviations.

I´ve recently seen a few posts at the FractalAudio forum, where people are asking about stuff that you would easily be able to answer for yourself if you just searched, read and understood the main basics of the MIDI standard. But I realized then that I can´t really expect others to be as geeky as myself with something that was set as far back as in 1983, and which haven´t really been updated since (which some even finds obnoxious in that sense!).

These other people may be a bit younger, or just not that interested. But if they come across one of these units with Soft Thru (and/or merging) first AND at the same time learnt that this thing that´s called MIDI (with the funny connectors/contacts) is apparently an old standard every manufacturer keeps themselves to. They might get a few things slightly wrong because of their units being a bit different. Which could lead to some confusion later…

That´s the main reason of my post, to have others getting the opportunity finding it in a search. Sorry if I/we got you offended in any way, not our intention.

Now, regarding your problem:

Could it be bandwidth overload? (if there´s some other commands being transmitted as well)?
Bad cable?

I just recently had an interesting “fault” with Bank Select messages being sent (first, without me knowing why) from a footcontroller. But when sending new Bank Select messages, nothing happened. Still recalled presets in another bank. It seems that the only solution that did work, were power cycling the receiving unit. No problem since (knock on wood).

But that kind of problem with that kind of solution doesn´t help you if performing live…

By the way, I am a bit curious of what interfaces and/or brand you´re programmer for (music business?). If you are willing to share that info?

glaciertree · 2014-01-20T12:43:41.000Z

btw, just wanted to thank you guys for all the input in this thread. I think especially Mike pointed out something that may be true for me. I bought my ot to replace a old yamaha qx sequencer, which had one of these soft thru sorts of features. I used the feature all the time, so often that I forgot I was using it.