Octatrack autosave

darenager · 2014-03-17T11:42:52.000Z

I asked about this to be changed back in the beta, a preference to set autosave on/off would be a much better solution, saving on the Octatrack is not very well implemented in my opinion, too convoluted and not even that consistent across data types.

I think though that it will not change as it is too established now, a shame.

bluewolfse7en · 2014-03-17T12:23:25.000Z

Cirklon has a very simple approach whereby an edited pattern will display an asterisk.
If you delete the pattern, it only deletes the edited version reverting to the previously saved one.
Maybe something along these lines could be implemented on the OT?

darenager · 2014-03-18T11:12:59.000Z

^ I like that idea too.

I tend to copy patterns before making edits as a workaround, which seems daft as everyone has been in the situation where you start tweaking and changing, lose track a bit of what you changed then wish you could just revert. Things like this can be a buzzkill I think, having to think of housekeeping whilst in the creative process is sometimes too much hassle, maybe it is down to me being a bit absent minded, dunno.

MK7 · 2014-03-18T11:39:31.000Z

As darenager siad, it will probably not change.

I save the current project as a new project each day, sometimes several version per day. Storage space is no issue on the OT. This allows to jam around, destroy all the data and jump back to a previous version.

It’s more complicated but I prefer this over a potential autosave off setting, because less data are lost.

pdp · 2021-01-17T12:49:41.838Z

You or someone else ever got an answer if there is a tecnical reason disable (pattern and/or general) autosave is not possible/implemented/wanted?

Everything good with complicated/strange stuff on OT ( parts, having to draw a sine lfo myself, need to saving save as new another time (reference to old answer from mk7)) and i love the discussions here, merlin, messy desk, tinez, macpro etc. Thanks to all experts and people asking!
But same or even more than on a4 ( no pat reload on ot) pattern autosave takes away from the fun part ( messing with plocks, trigs) and adds a feeling of fragility and insecurity imo.
Ok easy copy of a set to a usb stick ( havent done, i’m just playing around a bit) is very nice but done after project reload, save etc…
I just sent a feature request for ot also, as on tr8, tr8s its possible to turn on/off autosave (protect)

A bit related, (also for a4 and dn) am i missing something since years or is it necessary to turn down volume on a trig quickly if I want to enter a trig from the soundpool on a4 , dn, sample lock on ot, and want to scroll trough the sound pool list to the hi hat i want to enter and then copy, paste silently ?

darenager · 2021-01-17T13:09:52.671Z

pdp:

You or someone else ever got an answer if there is a tecnical reason disable (pattern and/or general) autosave is not possible/implemented/wanted?

No did not get an answer. I have got used to the way it is now, rarely causes me any issues, I would still like the option to turn autosave off though. Depending on how you work there can be some workarounds, saving/reloading parts, and copy/paste of data to protect from accidental over write. As well it helps to remember that save to card is a kind of (somewhat not too obvious) failsafe, in that it is separate from the cached save state. So once happy with a project, save to card, then when playing with project any changes which are autosaved get saved as cached “snapshot” if you mess up project and reload the saved version all of your changes will be lost and you have reverted. Not ideal in all cases, but sometimes gets over looked.

pdp · 2021-01-17T14:07:33.175Z

Thanks. Sorry to ask: with save to card you just mean normal save project ( that means it is saved to cf. Same for save or save and assign a buffer sample) ?

Havent looked at that, but suppose I can just copy the whole set to computer, advantage to +drive and project on a4, altough I love sysex and c6 meanwhile.

Its just that with project reload one has to be sure he has not done anything great since the last save ( not a big possibility for me to loose something breathtaking, that is also good to know…). And as said too many times, an insecure feeling…

Dont have ot here now. Thing with parts and part reload is that parameter locks are part of pattern…

darenager · 2021-01-17T14:24:00.185Z

Yes normal save command, from the manual:

4.12 HOW INFORMATION IS HANDLED
When working within a project there is no need to save as all changes are automatically cached on card. Changes made to a project will be remembered even after the machine has been switched off. The only time an operation needs to be carried out is before removing the Compact Flash card. The project should then be synced to the card. For more information about this operation, please see page 30.
There exists a SAVE command for projects though. Once you are content with a project, it is wise to save it. If you continue your work with the project, but are not satisfied with the results, you can then bring back the project to the previously saved state by performing a project RELOAD command.

I italicised the part relevant to what we are talking about.

darenager · 2021-01-17T15:11:51.811Z

pdp:

parameter locks are part of pattern…

And patterns are part of a bank, you can save current bank without affecting rest of project.

To be clear though, I’m in agreement with you that there can be, as you put it, some “insecurity” around data/saving, though (A) once you fully understand the data structure, and (B) remember all the relevant changes in your project that might need saving, it starts to makes sense, to a degree. I still get caught out from time to time, although rarely anything catastrophic.

pdp · 2021-01-17T19:38:52.140Z

Thanks a lot.
I will look into bank saving in some weeks or years.
Its more a fragile feeling for me.
IMO the more complex the machine and with trillions of great new trig and plock conditions, the more the machine would profit from a non-autosave mode where non-experts like me could turn on, go wild with all the great stuff without worries about reload etc,(maybe save project as), turn off.
Maybe there is a simple tecnical reason its not there.
On tr8 I absolutely dont need the write protect thing, on tr8s i would be happy to have it.

More a note to myself:
Referring to the old answer of mk7( save as new very often) i‘ll also search or test myself the precise step by step to simulate the save as of a daw.
There I also do often save as „testloopversion2moreresonance“
( save as of whole project because of little change)
On ot probably, maybe, i HOPE its possible after mangling :
Project „hello“ save as new, then reload. Need to figure out if I first have to save the new (AGAIN + rename to „hello2“ ) or reload the old.

Btw havent tested yet if its possible on a4 project manager to do copy project „hello“, reload ( load to saved project state), move to next number, paste, rename „hello2“
to simulate the save as click of a daw or save as other number on tanzbär, korg er1…

reeloy · 2021-01-17T19:42:30.028Z

…it’s better to forget to reload, than to forget to save…u can only have it one way or the other…

autosave saved my ass too many times to join ur cake here…
i love the fact, that it always starts where i left it…

and if u don’t reload ur project to fresh status before a gig, which is the only situation were it ends up as an epic fail for real…well, some must learn it the hard way…

tnussb · 2021-01-17T22:19:15.898Z

pdp:

Project „hello“ save as new, then reload. Need to figure out if I first have to save the new (AGAIN + rename to „hello2“ ) or reload the old.

Project=>“save to new” to save changes as new project which becomes the active one
Project=>“change” to load the old one (if you really want to go back)

Making successive backups using the “save to new” functionality is almost as fast as just using the save project key combo. Make a habit of it. Before toying around with a project, just make a backup. Whenever you think a state is “stable” or worth saving, make a backup. This cures any insecurities.

It doesn’t matter if you produce 10-20 backups in a single session this way. You can always cleanup later on, but you can’t get back overwritten or not saved stuff.

pdp · 2021-01-17T22:40:16.624Z

Thanks a lot.
Will combine your short answer and the detailed tecnical of open mike below when i see ot next time.
Anyway important to save the altered project again (to be able to later reload ) after save to new and glad i saw it in your great forum before throwing ot out of the window spontanously when i wouldnt have seen it here.

Save to new = save + save as (both at the same time) Why? Octatrack

Say you start on Project 1, let’s say you have performed a “Save” command at some point on this Project 1 and since then you have made changes. Now you perform a “Save as new”. Project 1’s active autosaved state is now “synced to card” which is the manuals way of saying its autosaved active state is now fully saved to the CF card. Renaming as Project 2 with the “save to new” command you now have an identical copy of Project 1’s active state now in the form of Project 2’s active state and Proje…

pdp · 2021-02-20T21:38:22.693Z

Coming back a little bit later…
That you use it often and on stage and like autosave is a big argument.
Yes its one way or the other.

Still I wonder if there is a simple tecnical reason or what is it there is not a tipical elektron checkbox to choose one way or the other.
Mostly I mean a checkbox on Analog 4
in elektronese language below the reload kit on change checkbox that says :

[ ] Reload pattern on change.

Something similar on OT personalize menu…

For me a autosave on or off checkbox,

but I know I‘m minority here and also dont use it enough.

On roland tr-8 (autosaves stuff) they added a button combo in a update to lock ( write protect ) a pattern.
On tr8s ( i don‘t have it, more compareable to complex ot)
there is a simple „push 2 buttons simultaneously thing“ to lock (write protect from autosaving) a kit- pattern combo.
Japanese engineers like to be able to turn on or off autosave, swedish engineers not or is there a tecnical reason? No answer from feature request team in sweden yet…

sezare56 · 2021-02-21T16:28:46.084Z

I don’t get what is the problem with Autosave.

What would do an option? Reload saved project automatically after power cycle or project change?

pdp · 2021-02-21T22:08:58.756Z

Yes sorry I know it doesnt seem a problem for the majority of the experienced users here.
Dont know what would be possible on ot tecnically.
Me personally I would like an option to turn on ot, play with stuff and turn off and its like before. ( or maybe make a save as pattern 2 or project2)
Or even like on tanzbär it starts blank, i first have to load a project if i want to contiunue something and save to a new number/name or the same if i want to save.
(As said as an option as I see most are happy as it is)

As I see it, now for peace of mind I would have to start with a copy of a pattern on a copy of a project. ( or start with a fresh project of course) on OT.
(On a4 go to empty pattern, load new kit… to start fresh)

On A4 I often make the „copy pattern, reload pattern, save to next pattern, save pattern, name/save kit as kit2 „ operation. ( kit reload on change marked)
On ot there is no reload pattern operation.

My question to elektron is mostly :
Is there a tecnical reason on a4 there it can be marked kit reload on change but not pattern reload on change?

Feature request on both machines: an option pattern reload on change ( in elektron language)
( no pattern autosave in other language)

Or a tr-8s style key combo: write protect pattern with kit ( i can jump back to that pattern and its like when i turned on the machine)

Or for me an option on all machines : nothing gets saved until i hit save or hit a save as. ( like on a daw: do you want to save the changes? when i hit close. Or if I like both versions i hit save as)
On bass station or tanzbär: when I turn off
everything is like before turning on if i didnt save to a number( the same or if i like to keep the old to a new number)

I repeat: just as an option to mark [ ],
i don’t want to take away autosave from all happy users and maybe its just a tecnical necessity for some elektron-speciality.

( or a special edition rytm and a4 just for me)

DanJamesAUS · 2021-02-22T01:09:30.269Z

It’s designed the way it is and doubt it will ever change,
think you just have to accept how Elektron have designed it and need to use it the way they intended it to be used. You can achieve what you want by simply saving the project,
If you want to get back to that spot reload the project…

I’m working on a track on my DT/DN when I’ve had enough I switch it off
It’s great when I switch it back on its still there. It’s hardware not a computer.
I could create save points to go back to also, so it does what it needs to do

pdp · 2021-02-22T11:58:34.665Z

Greetings from the alps to australia.
Yes I reload the project constantly. I like the small meditation to watch the loading bar.( no joke)
Well not that constantly, because of general lazyness or other stuff. And because for a quick jam it takes away motivation that i first have to copy pattern etc etc, thinking do I risk jamming without project copy or make version 3 of that (not amazing ) jam.

A bit also the encoders not so inviting to touch as most others ( dreadbox…) , for me, but apart from that a4, dn, ot (rytm also with that compressor i imagine) would be the perfect (quick ) jamming machines for me.

Yes I can achieve what I want ( jumping around patterns, plocks, reloads and trig modes, enjoying elektrons unique selling point) without worries and thinking with a copy of project plus copy of pattern. And then another copy.

I was in the rename menu, thinking I was concentrated but managed to mess it up more somehow. Now I‘m scared to go there again.
I noted now the improvised project names and what the crossfader does on a piece of paper.

On digitone I also already reloaded pattern where i thought its saved to project.
I can tell when i bought a4 and talked about it with the old hippie shop owner he said thats a no go and offered to return it.
The young employee said live with it and its kinda cool.

Since then the fascination for elektron sequencer was in constant clash with that insecurity ( or maybe my general insecurity) and not turning on the machine or not buying another.
The sequencer wins as you see

darenager · 2021-02-22T12:18:07.518Z

I kind of see what @pdp means, sometimes you just want to tweak a pattern without it saving anything, sure it is easy enough to get around using reload, and I can see why Elektron decided to do it this way, having an autosave on/off function would probably lead to mistakes.

Main thing to remember @pdp is that there are 2 save states, the autosave (which is cached to card constantly upon changes) and the save project save which is done manually.

When you are happy with a project save it, any tweaks which you do do not overwrite the actual saved project just the autosave cached version, in the instance where you prefer the new changes you made, manually save project again, in the instance where you don’t prefer the changes you made don’t save it.

Also bear in mind that you can save banks, parts and samples, so if you just tweak some sounds you can save the part, if you change some sequences you can save the bank.

The save to new is a very handy feature as @tnussb mentioned because it allows you to compare different versions.

My advice would be to save a project you are happy with, then save to new a version that you can experiment with, then try saving parts and banks. All the while safe in the knowledge that your original project will be just as you left it.

DanJamesAUS · 2021-02-22T12:52:24.207Z

Maybe it’s more the fact there is not really much undo?
because I don’t see much of a difference between doing it either way
using a daw vs Elektron way except you have to save before you switch off tbh…

Plus unless I’m using the Octatrack I use Overbridge and just use total recall
so it does work exactly like saving a ableton project but the last project is active on the Elektron stuff when turn them on