Octatrack & Albeton (& Other Things...!)

G0n35y · 2013-10-15T08:09:17.000Z

Hi guys

Finally taming the Octatrack a bit to the extent that Im getting much more into on the fly sampling and sequencing my Tetra. I’ve got the point where I’d like to get Ableton, Maschine, iPad and my other vst’s involved in some sort of set up with the Octatrack effectively being the cornerstone, alomst running the show. I know a few of you use both or some, I’m curious about your set ups and and work flow. Have tried searching on a few forums but while people mention the set up, no one has ever really detailed it.

Essentially I’d like to add something more digital to my Octatrack efforts as well as effects but would rather utilise my ITB tools than spend more cash on OTB. I have Komplete and a few other really good vst’s that havent seen much use since I got the Octatrack.

I’m guessing with my gear it will take a bit of trial and error to get everything working nice but are there big pitfalls I should look out for? And any suggestions on how to go about it? I’d like to bash out drums on Maschine, have this sampled into the Octatrack, Ableton could sequence vsts like FM8 with the clock slaved to the Octatrack while the Octatrack sequences my Tetra/iPad. That sort of thing. Maybe it’s all a little ambitious? I dunno! I think some sort of a mixer will be essential for all of this.

I don’t have any grand plans oni performing live, I’d just like to jam and write tunes with more of my gear readily available to me rather than using either/or between Ableton and Octatrack.

monochrome · 2013-10-15T12:32:09.000Z

Hey I have only just got my octatrack and have been wondering the same thing. One of the first things i did was slave my maschine to the OT clock and run the audio back into the OT via a thru machine - worked great!

I have a few hardware synths and use Live as my main daw but have always found Lives external sequencing to be all over the place so I want to get a step up going where Live is slaved to the OT, with Maschine as a plugin in Live and have the OT sequence all my hardware synths. Then basically have the hardware audio running either through a mixer back into the OT or back into Live, not sure yet.

One thing is for sure though, love the OT! Midi clock is tight!

wascal · 2013-10-15T15:33:47.000Z

I ended up buying an Innerclock SyncLock from another Elektron Users member after a month of struggling with Live’s piss-poor external sync. Now everything works like clockwork. Ideally Ableton’s sync shouldn’t require a £300 box to make it work but it doesn’t look like theyre going to fix that any time soon. Hopefully Bitwig might give them a kick up the rear on that front.

I’ve got the SyncLock Out and Midi Out from the Mac, plus a few controllers all running into a MOTU Midi Timepiece AV (midi patchbay) and then the MOTU’s outs are going to my OT / MD / Analogs etc. You can easily set up different patching configurations to switch between for different scenarios. Highly recommended box for outboard stuff, got mine for £40 on Ebay.

Live I just use the MD and OT to avoid any hassle and its all i need tbh

G0n35y · 2013-10-15T19:40:51.000Z

Well I’m making progress. After spending about half an hour of head scratching I realised that A- I hadnt actually hooked anything to my X-Stations midi in and B- I hadn’t set up the Tetra Midi Out to be a Thru. Sake! Anyway, I have at least got everything talking to each other now and I have to say, the Octatrack has really tamed Ableton’s midi clock, much better than Maschine in standalone mode too.

Finally heading in the direction I was wanting my set up to go! Now to decide on how to route all of this audio!

nedavine · 2013-10-16T04:06:47.000Z

I tried using ableton slaved to the OT for the first time this week. I was really missing some of my VST synths and effects so I thought I’d give it a go. The clock would not sit still, jumping all over the place. What’s the deal? Is it really that terrible?

Are there work arounds that don’t require expensive gear?

G0n35y · 2013-10-16T07:48:34.000Z

It was actually your threads here and on Gearlsutz around effects and the hunt for some digital hardware that got me thinking more about pulling everything together that I owned into one larger set up to meet various needs be it jamming, writing, recording ideas, etc. I’ve spent a small fortune on soft/hardware over the past 12-18 months and kind of thought enough is enough for now!

My clock doesn’t sit completely still all the time in Ableton and I found every few seconds it would move +/- 0.01 above or below the tempo that was set. I let a loop on Octatrack and Maschine through Ableton run for a good 20 minutes or so and I couldn’t notice anything out of sync so for my purposes this seems to work a treat. As I said above, Maschine in standalone was constantly moving for me +/- unything up to 0.05. For my uses, that probably wont be an issue either but was a bit annoying.

Ableton is well known for this problem but I guess it must just come down to a number of factors around drivers, DAW and hardware used. That and a lot of luck!

Now I just need to practice live sampling on the fly and get my head around that as I was having a bit of bother/confusing using recorder trigs to sample what I was looping in Maschine. I’ll get there soon enough though though, practice makes perfect and all that.

I did have a lot of fun last night writing drum patterns in Maschine, having FM8 provide some of the “digitalness” and then on the Octatrack sequencing the Tetra. Actually sounded great and once I can learn how to use cues and recorder trigs properly I’ll be having a ball.

nedavine · 2013-10-16T08:35:08.000Z

""J0n35y"":

It was actually your threads here and on Gearlsutz around effects and the hunt for some digital hardware that got me thinking more about pulling everything together that I owned into one larger set up to meet various needs be it jamming, writing, recording ideas, etc. I’ve spent a small fortune on soft/hardware over the past 12-18 months and kind of thought enough is enough for now!

My clock doesn’t sit completely still all the time in Ableton and I found every few seconds it would move +/- 0.01 above or below the tempo that was set. I let a loop on Octatrack and Maschine through Ableton run for a good 20 minutes or so and I couldn’t notice anything out of sync so for my purposes this seems to work a treat. As I said above, Maschine in standalone was constantly moving for me +/- unything up to 0.05. For my uses, that probably wont be an issue either but was a bit annoying.

Ableton is well known for this problem but I guess it must just come down to a number of factors around drivers, DAW and hardware used. That and a lot of luck!

Now I just need to practice live sampling on the fly and get my head around that as I was having a bit of bother/confusing using recorder trigs to sample what I was looping in Maschine. I’ll get there soon enough though though, practice makes perfect and all that.

I did have a lot of fun last night writing drum patterns in Maschine, having FM8 provide some of the “digitalness” and then on the Octatrack sequencing the Tetra. Actually sounded great and once I can learn how to use cues and recorder trigs properly I’ll be having a ball.

That’s exactly why I wanted a cool digital synth. I really miss fm8 and reaktor and I was surprised how much I missed real instruments (samples obviously) of things like marimbas and music boxes.
Most of the maschine library I already recorded and sliced for the OT. I’m enjoying not using the computer so much recently but I’m having no luck finding my vst replacement synth.
I feel like I’ve spent the past week just shopping and am still no closer to finding what I want. Maybe tonight I’ll readjust the set up yet again and copy yours (I think we both have a very similar aesthetic).
Rather than watching the clock I’ll let my ears judge.
I really need to settle on a set up though. Every time I reroute all my gear I effectively make my previous projects useless as all the settings switch.
At least I’m certain that the tetra and OT should be my main tools. Maybe I should get rid of everything except those two lol.
Postage links if you upload any of your jams etc.

G0n35y · 2013-10-16T12:07:58.000Z

To be fair, the threads you started were full of interesting synths I would never have come across or considered seriously like the Yamaha TX81Z. But I figured that at some point in the future if I still wanted a hardware digital synth then I would probably look to a MnM.

Without meaning to open a can of worms, I decided that for now there is nothing anywhere near my price range that can compete with my soft synths hence the move to integrate OT and Live better. If I can get the audio routed in a way that is useful I think that Maschine, Live (controlled with an APC 40, probably my next purchase), keyboard and OT will be a hell of a lot of fun to write tunes with. I just need to figure how I use the OT in that set up.

Right now I do enjoy just working with the OT with samples and the Tetra (still barely scratched the surface with the Tetra). I’ll probably look to keep it simple and just add one vst to the mix to begin with. While I remember, at work just now, but is it detailed in the manual how to do a combi patch so that an external source can drive each voice on a different channel and/or is it easy to set up? I know you have done this, keen to give it a try.

One thing I really need to be more relaxed with is actually performing tunes. Im quite bad for using the OT to make some strange/cool noises and beats but neglecting the crossfader a bit but then I’ve been absolutely knackered the past fortnight or so and by the time I sit down to write tunes the inspiration to look into the OTs bag of tricks has gone! That’ll change soon enough.

It does look like we have similar set ups though, I need to settle on something too. Ive been terrible this past month for wasting time lusting over gear on the net! Time to just mess about with what Ive got! Simplifying does work though. Sometimes its great to just strip out 90% of your stuff then to slowly add bits that you miss. I guess it takes years to really settle on a set up that really clicks for you.

Will see about uploading, I am notoriously shy and negative with my friends and family with anything musical that I do! Probably with good reason!!! Right now I dont really have anything worth uploading, its all just 2 or 3 pattern long ideas on the OT! But if I can get the head down I’ll take something from start to finish. Need to learn how to use the set up in unison first!!!

nedavine · 2013-10-16T15:05:28.000Z

I haven’t actually tried the tetra in multi mode yet. I think it’s just a case of putting multi mode on and making sure that the following 3 channels are free (so if its channel one, voice two will be channel two etc).

I’ll try it tomorrow as I too have been in the “get home knackered no energy to be creative” stage.

Just share clips mate, its not like anyone is sitting there judging you. It’s just nice seeing what people do when they fart about on the OT. I just made a proper stupid clip of the TX81Z and shoved it on youtube, maybe there is someone out there wondering what it sounds like, maybe it’s just me watching my own vids but either way people aren’t as judgemental as you would think.

G0n35y · 2013-10-17T07:16:38.000Z

Will need to take a look at the Tetra too. Problem with spending so much time setting things up is that it completely swamps the actual writing process!!! Might hold off and just actually write for a bit.

I was mucking about last night and still cant get the hang of live sampling (manually or triggered) without the need to read here or youtube things so will be practicing that a lot before looking to nail something down. Getting there though! It’s when you try to take on grander projects with the OT that you understand why many consider it an instrument!!!

Know what you mean about just putting up! Will get on it once things are set up and the creativity is, hopefully!!!, flowing.

RyanElektric · 2013-10-17T12:35:56.000Z

I was stuck living in a hotel for MUCH longer than anticipated as I moved from my old place into this new one.

With more than half my gear in storage, I’ve been working with just the OT, some A4, my MI Ambika and Ableton with the MPC Element Controller.

In a week and half I jammed out and recorded 8 little improvised tracks (and did a half-assed mixing and mastering job, but still!). Some are 7-8 minutes long with some difficult transitions and mistakes, but I have rough drafts of songs (or, at least, parts of songs) that I can dig out of even the messiest ones. Years ago (with my “band”) we would spend days and days on each track and we were all total perfectionists. I learned to let go of that and just throw stuff up just for the sake of progression. I honestly don’t know if it would have happened without being forced to use less gear in a hotel room!

Which brings me back to the topic of this thread: Ableton is a total failure when it comes to external sync. I’ve looked into those SyncLock boxes, but they’re simply too expensive for something my $800 DAW should be able to do on its own! What a joke! I waste so much time re-recording and micro editing audio tracks.

secretmusic · 2013-10-21T14:43:59.000Z

A few ideas :

If you are serious about integrating Ableton and hardware, then a Sync Lock is pretty much mandatory. You can do without, but once you try it, it will be impossible to go back.
It’s one of those devices that seems almost pointless, as it doesn’t create any sound on its own. However, it allows for tight, virtually “jitter - free” sync between your DAW and all your MIDI gear. That has no price, to be honest.

Also, do not rely on the tempo indicator on Ableton or the OT to evaluate a MIDI clock’s tightness. The varying readout on the tempo indicator does not mean that the actual tempo is fluctuating by that much, only that the readout and display is not 100% accurate. This has been confirmed by Elektron on the old forums.

Finally, using VST’s to feed the OT is a great way to increase and stimulate creativity. My favourite plug in of all times is Reaktor. I spend a lot of time on the NI user library, downloading new ensembles and trying them out. It feels like Christmas ! Reaktor provides prefect OT food.

Hope this helps
Cheers

RyanElektric · 2013-10-23T07:25:06.000Z

Just got my hands on an AKAI s950, and I’ve decided I can no longer live without Reaktor feeding the OT feeding the 950 (then feeding an MPC or Keyboard Sampler.

It’s expensive- but I think I might finally bite the bullet here and buy it.

Question is- then why not just go ahead and buy Komplete? it isn’t that much more! I already have Guitar Rig, though…

G0n35y · 2013-10-23T12:03:40.000Z

As a Maschine owner it made huge sense to get my hands on Komplete. It really is vast.

If I didn’t already have Maschine to take advantage of the crossgrade then I have to say I would still go for Komplete over a purchase of any one synth. I picked up a Komplete 8 crossgrade dirt cheap on Ebay then upgraded to 9 from there so you could probably grab a bargain yourself for Komplete 8 (or maybe 9).

I think if I were to go live with my set up I would certainly pick up a Sync Lock but for what Im doing at home, I seem to be achieving pretty tightly sampled loops from Live and am happy with the results. Everything seems to be working nicely together - to my ears at least! - though I still largely prefer using the OT on its own when in the early stages of writing something new. That will evolve over time though - especially when I get a Live template all set up and smoother workflow reached. Getting there though!

secretmusic · 2013-10-23T17:57:44.000Z

""J0n35y"":

As a Maschine owner it made huge sense to get my hands on Komplete. It really is vast.

If I didn’t already have Maschine to take advantage of the crossgrade then I have to say I would still go for Komplete over a purchase of any one synth. I picked up a Komplete 8 crossgrade dirt cheap on Ebay then upgraded to 9 from there so you could probably grab a bargain yourself for Komplete 8 (or maybe 9).

I think if I were to go live with my set up I would certainly pick up a Sync Lock but for what Im doing at home, I seem to be achieving pretty tightly sampled loops from Live and am happy with the results. Everything seems to be working nicely together - to my ears at least! - though I still largely prefer using the OT on its own when in the early stages of writing something new. That will evolve over time though - especially when I get a Live template all set up and smoother workflow reached. Getting there though!

Indeed, many amazing albums have been recorded without a Sync Lock

Komplete is great, i stopped upgrading it but I use it for Reaktor !
Cheers.