Octatrack adds 12 db of gain to every incoming sample?

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

Why is the Octatrack automatically adding +12db of gain when I sample on to a Flex track? Is there a way to turn this function off? I don’t want this gain added, I am trying to capture audio from outboard gear live while i play and the 12db volume boost really destroys the sound. I’ve tried to lower the volume by 12db on the Thru track I’m using to monitor the audio as well as the Flex track I’m using to sample the Thru track. Can anything be done to have the sample play back exactly as it was initially recorded? I can go to the recording attributes page and manually turn it down but this is not effective when playing live, I’d have to be constantly doing that and I’d still get that massive initial +12db volume spike. Any suggestions and remedies are greatly appreciated! thanks!

-Brett

#2

AFAIK the +12dB gain is a neutral setting, because the OT is reducing the incoming signal during recording by -12dB (without telling you). I guess your gain problems are coming from somewhere else (track volume not at neutral setting?). You can use the search function to find tons of infos about gain staging on the OT.

Nevertheless: When you change the gain in the attributes page of one of the 8 recording slots/buffers it will stay at the value you changed it to for each recording you make with that buffer afterwards.

And to get the terms right: you are not recording/sampling on a flex track. Recording/sampling is done with one of the 8 recorders. The flex machine itself is just for playback.

More infos about the +12dB can be found here:

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#3

thank you! I just realized the 12db was staying ptt once i changed it, for some reason it wasn’t before and now it is, there is a lot of that “it was/wasn’t before but now it is/isn’t” for me. I will check out the Merlin Manual ASAP. Thanks for all the info!

#4

I guess it resets to 12db when you reboot the OT (because recorder buffers gets cleared).

You can prevent this reset by saving the current content of the recording buffer to the CF card (“save-and-assign”->“assign to self”), so be loaded as default content when booting.

It depends on what you want, but it may make even sense to save-and-assign when the buffer is empty.

More about the “assign to self” feature:

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#5

now every time I erase the recording buffer, the +12db gets added back to the next time i record, this is a very complicated machine that will take a long time for me to figure out, nothing seems to be consistent with it, I am sure this all my lack of experience and newness to it, but it is certainly not very user friendly, sorry to vent i am just very frustrated, putting hours into this machine and its seemingly going nowhere!

#6

How do you erase the content of the recording buffer? Why not just recording over its content?

I still question the reason why you want to change the +12db setting, because that’s effectively 0db as I wrote above. The OT reduces the incoming signal by -12db (for headroom) and this setting pushes it back to 0db again.

So it’s as loud as it got sent into the OT. There is no additional 12db of gain.

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#7

Recorder buffers add 12db. I turn in it down to 0 in the audio editor before normalizing and saving the sample to the card.

Just sounds like you haven’t got the hang of the OT work flow quite yet . Its a funny machine, but so worth it.

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#8

i definitely do not have the hang yet :slight_smile: …In my situation it’s not about saving a sample, its about the sample immediately playing back at the same level that it was recorded at, because i am trying to sample and resample live on the fly, when i sample on the fly it plays back very loud as compared to the way i monitored when recording(12db too loud!), I dont understand what the Octatrack is compensating for, the 12db is def not compensating for a 12 db loss because it plays back so loud! I’ve tried lowering the level on everythiing I can think of- the amp section, the cue, the master. I want to feed the flex track back into the same recorder so i can layer on top of it, i wish it didnt add this 12db of gain, I wonder why its not an option to turn it off, any idea? Am at making sense as to what I want to accomplish?

#9

Yep. You are making perfect sense.
I dunno dude. I have played the way you describe, and not had a problem myself.

#10

what I am hearing play back to me is a very loud version of what I played in, when I lower the samples gain by the 12db that ws automatically added, it sounds normal again, I don’t really know what -12db the OT is compensating for, the sample that plays back is blaring loud, i have to take the 12db off, there may be some math behind it but my ears and distorting speakers not lying.

I’m going type out exactly my set up so maybe it makes more sense----I should note that the recordimng is set to listen to the CUE and I also have the track the recorder is on [TRACK 6] sending to the CUE so it doesn’t lose the audio on it, effectively creating a layered loop.

#11

Again: please read the above thread I linked to about the “OT being too loud”. It is not too loud. You are doing your gain staging somewhere else wrong. The 12db are definitely not added. Either you are boosting the signal via master track or track volume or by some fx (or maybe even the mixer settings).

There is a reason why this 12db setting is there by default (and that reason is not to drive you into insanity).

How to you monitor btw? Via mixer or thru machine?

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#12

I am monitoring through the CUE out when I am doing this whole looping thing, the track that plays back the recording is also going out through the CUE.

#13

OMG, i had the main and cue at +63 on the mixer section! thank you , i think that was it!

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#14

Oh yeah, the little things … :rofl:

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#15

yep! but seriously thank you for sticking with me through this, really helped me figure it out, I doubt I’d have figured it out at all if it werent for this group!

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#16

Whery old Thread but wanted to add to an exisiting one.

Yesterday i was wondering about how you guys generally go about when saving recordings to the CF Card. For me was either what @Microtribe wrote: Record something, normalize it, but then you need to remove the 12dB Gain in the Sample Attributes page, because otherwise it’s not matching the volume and gain problems arise. But that made me think, i could as well just not normalize recordings and leave the +12dB Gain in the Attributes Page. Obviously that isn’t equal to normalizing the recorded audio file, but as long as a recording stays within the OT and Gain structures are setup correctly this would be equally helpfull and a tick faster.

So i was wondering: how do you guys do that ?

#17

Mixed bag. I used to normalize things but having the ability to back the gain off if needed is nice and it’s more immediate than something like the Digitakt and Rytm mkii where you have to wait for normalization after direct sampling. I can see why they did it that way. if you need more gain you can always normalize and then adjust but these days I only normalize if I have something super faint that needs the normalization plus 12 db or if I’m sampling from the OT to be used for another sampler.

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#18

For stuff sampled on the OT I barely use normalization (beside special effects like resampling the noise floor itself).

YMMV, but if I’m not satisfied with the original sample something has already gone wrong in the gainstaging during sampling and I redo it. IMHO normalization is just a poor excuse for being lazy in the first place … :wink:

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#19

Yep that’s the Octatrack. Regular manual with search, this forum and hours of use will get you there :thup:

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#20

Thanks a lot. That’s what made me wonder initialy. Realizing i did to much efford for something that’s not having any advantage. I guess main Gains are not too far off and and since i want to keep recorded stuff only in the OT anyway i realized i might do extra milage for nothing :upside_down_face: Also storing Samples gets a lot quicker if you don’t have to normalize all recordings (depending on the length of the recording the time for normalizing takes longer than actually saving the recording)

So i guess no normalizing anymore.

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