Octatrack / A4 - Bank organizer / library / Editor for computer

joshEjosh · 2014-03-14T18:28:32.000Z

""Anigbrowl"":

I’m surprised they don’t have a .h file sitting about naming all the fields etc., but then again they probably don’t want to expose any of the sequencer functions which might also be in there.

I guess I should upload a bunch of projects and bring them into a hex editor…

Yeah, that’d be a bit tricky unless they were extremely disciplined in making their header files. You’re exactly right in that ‘other stuff’ would tend to creep in. Actually, in my mind that’s reverse engineering too, just at a higher level.

I’d much rather have a human readable document that describes the format in a tabular form like the MIDI implementation guides in the manuals.

I know how hard it is to fully describe every bit in a binary file format. I’ve done it before. So, I get why the Elektron engineers haven’t done that yet.

Rusty · 2014-03-14T23:08:12.000Z

""joshEjosh"":

[quote=“Rusty”]When I asked, I was told no. But if they are prepared to release information to me, then I will see what I can do about accessing the bank / pattern / sample assignments; till then, a nit of a holding pattern.

I’d like to collaborate on it, if possible. I do have a considerable amount of software engineering experience. Though I’d understand if you want to go it alone, if for example you are planning on making this a commercial product. If you’re willing to make it OSS, I would definitely be able to make some contributions of some sort.[/quote]
I did get your pm, just weighing up what to say, so apologies if it comes across as rude, but I’ll be in touch shortly.

joshEjosh · 2014-03-15T01:26:27.000Z

No worries man. I’m just being clear about my intentions.

void · 2014-03-15T01:44:10.000Z

in hex veritas

nakedbob · 2014-03-21T02:50:07.000Z

Any word on this?
Very interested please

Rusty · 2014-03-21T03:02:02.000Z

Currently the new build is in Alpha testing. This is in C#, and should allow easier translation across to OSX.

Until / when they do this, I won’t be attempting to decrypt those files. This means that I won’t be extending the functionality to manage Banks / Patterns.

Please also bear in mind I am very busy with other things at the moment, so development / testing time is quite limited for me, but it is nearly ready for Beta testing.

""joshEjosh"":

The good news is, Elektron doesn’t have any problem with publishing the file format.

Unfortunately, with all the (great) work that is going on, they don’t have anything to publish. Understandable, at least from my perspective.

I’ve spent a bit of time trying toget some info out of Elektron regarding the Arrangement / Bank files, but they are unwilling or unable to provide any information to me.

So I’ve given up trying to chase that down

nakedbob · 2014-03-21T03:08:12.000Z

Thank you so much for your hard work!
That is too bad about the continued non-support from HQ.
I was hoping joshejosh had made some headway with this.
I am down to beta for you if need be.
Win7
Also:
Would gladly pay for the finished product. And I def understand being busy.
Cheers

Dogma · 2014-03-21T03:20:37.000Z

I have also had conversations with Jon from elektron and they have since changed their mind and will make the code available but as rusty said they don’t have it documented. I find this really difficult to grasp as the file structure was built by them so I think they might be being quite cheeky when they say they don’t have it documented. Well they do in so much as they’ve written an os based off that code for that part of the os so it’s not documented can mean anything really it seems to me. So do we start a petition? When you have a user (rusty) who has a program ready to roll and that EVERY octatrack owner wants and new users really need so not to provide that information is crap in my book.
Given its code we are probably talking about a couple if lines of data - it does not end here.

nakedbob · 2014-03-21T03:36:14.000Z

Yeah if you all think a petition or whatever would help get HQ’s attention.
This seems like such a good idea, and as been stated, Rusty and others have already done some of the hard work.
Especially since we OCtatrackers were left out of the Overbridge I feel they should throw us a bone.
I had considered they might be reluctant because either they were working on something similar, OR just we’re not interested in doing ANYTHING software related.
Now I don’t think either of those are the case.

So, yeah.
I WANT a sample manager.

Please.

Tintao · 2014-03-21T12:55:55.000Z

Rusty, why not publish your code on github for example. I could, and other too, have a look and get involve in the building of the app ?

Rusty · 2014-03-21T13:08:50.000Z

""Tintao"":

Rusty, why not publish your code on github for example. I could, and other too, have a look and get involve in the building of the app ?

Because I hate github with a passion?

Problem is not with my code, problem is with my time and Elektron’s wishy washy answers regarding file formats. The app is pretty more or less good to go beta.

Tintao · 2014-03-21T15:37:21.000Z

Ok i understand. But that’s the point. If you don’t have time, maybe we could create a small community of developers around your work. Some other may have the time.

What do you think ?

joshEjosh · 2014-03-21T20:46:42.000Z

""Rusty"":

Because I hate github with a passion?

Fair enough, there are other repositories out there. Bitbucket is what we use at my company. It’s quite good. Or… maybe the issue is with OSS licensing, which is also fair. It’s your project after all.

As I mentioned earlier: I would participate in an OSS project if there was one, and if there isn’t, I would probably make my own if I find the time (and the specs for the file formats, of course).

The one thing that I want to do is to set up banks / patterns that are lined up across all my Elektrons. That can be done with a little C6/Sysex elbow grease with the MD/MNM with ‘receive pattern+kit to location’. The OT… eh… not so much. The A4… I think also… not so much.

It would be really cool to be able to re-organize patterns from different snapshots/projects on the different machines into one big snapshot/project for a live set. That might be a bit of a stretch.

housewarez · 2014-03-21T20:56:28.000Z

Elektron with do it if you wont.

Dogma · 2014-03-21T21:51:28.000Z

That was almost a haiku - what did you actually mean?

HZA · 2014-03-21T22:52:14.000Z

oh man, can’t wait to beta test. just want to re-arrange my live now, getting tighter and tighter towards summer. give me a shout when it’s time!

big up ;)!

Rusty · 2014-03-22T04:11:59.000Z

""joshEjosh"":

The one thing that I want to do is to set up banks / patterns that are lined up across all my Elektrons. That can be done with a little C6/Sysex elbow grease with the MD/MNM with ‘receive pattern+kit to location’. The OT… eh… not so much. The A4… I think also… not so much.

I think being able to incorporate MD/MM interfacing could be an interesting dicsussion point, or may be better suited for a seperate app, and potential super app in the future if the OT/A4 data ever occurs / becomes available?

""housewarez"":

Elektron with do it if you wont.

If Elektron gave a flying fuck they would have done something by now, or be more forthcoming about the file formats, or provided a proper SysEx implementation for the Octatrack.

The fact that it is pushing two and a half years old now, they haven’t done any of the above, and is still arguably not a mature product/OS speaks volumes.

joshEjosh · 2014-03-22T13:47:11.000Z

[quote=“” housewarez""]
Elektron with do it if you wont.
[/quote]

Possible, but IMO unlikely. Not exactly an app for commercial gain. Just scratching an itch.

joshEjosh · 2014-03-22T13:50:35.000Z

""Rusty"":

[quote=“joshEjosh”]The one thing that I want to do is to set up banks / patterns that are lined up across all my Elektrons. That can be done with a little C6/Sysex elbow grease with the MD/MNM with ‘receive pattern+kit to location’. The OT… eh… not so much. The A4… I think also… not so much.

I think being able to incorporate MD/MM interfacing could be an interesting dicsussion point, or may be better suited for a seperate app, and potential super app in the future if the OT/A4 data ever occurs / becomes available?
[/quote]
Something like that, yes. Are the MD / MNM Sysex formats somewhere? If so, maybe I could start with that.

zeropoint · 2014-03-22T14:09:43.000Z

As someone said elsewhere, with Overbridge Elektron have proved that they are happy and able to devote resources to developing software solutions to improve the performance and integration of their hardware.

With that in mind I too remain baffled as to why they

a) haven’t come up with some sort of project management software themselves, not only for the OT but as a central organizing brain for planning complex sets where any number from one to all of their boxes are in play.

or

b) don’t do everything they can to help others keen to fill the hole off their own bat

i’d pay for it , whoever comes up with it, and i’d guess that’s true for the vast majority of users.

Thanks Rusty , Dogma , josh and others for continuing to push on this…