Octa vs. A4 sequencer

Autopoiesis · 2015-03-13T23:39:23.000Z

This is a question for those who have used both the Octatrack and the A4.

In threads I’ve read where people discuss their disappointment in the A4’s raw sound and filters – which I can relate to – it’s often claimed that the sequencer on the A4 makes up for it (as well as the FX, which can be obligatory anyway for certain patches). It’s definitely the box’s Unique Selling Point, and I’m sure it’s awesome to have p-locks, performance macros, and parameter movement recording on a synth if you can’t get that elsewhere. But is there anything special about having those sequencing features internally integrated in the A4 as opposed to introduced to your other synths (whose voices you might like much more) via the Octa?

I know that there are some things that the A4’s sequencer can do that the Octa can’t (performance macros, parameter slides, accents, individual note slides, envelopes as modulation sources, sound locks – am I missing anything?) and vice versa (e.g., 1 more LFO, different time signatures per track, parameter locks for arpeggiator mode; no need to mention the ability to MIDI sequence other gear). So I’m not asking for a comparison of paper specs, just thoughts on how it’s impacted your workflow, inspiration, whatever.

I’m not at the moment interested in the A4’s CV sequencing capabilities so I’d like to focus this on a comparison of the Octatrack’s MIDI sequencer used on other gear vs. the A4’s internal sequencer.

avantronica · 2015-03-14T00:23:04.000Z

internal parameter locking and external midi plocking (OT) are different

if you plock a param on A4 step 1 it will blip for step 1
if you do this on OT it will offset the value on all steps

if the 16 steps contain plocks then both will behave the same (no slides)

no issues with the sound of the A4 here, everything else is a bonus

a4 sequencer is much more direct and simultaneous multi trig locking is possible

the A4 works on 14bit resolution with many params
the OT sends out 7bit

cheese and chalk for smooth fine control

different beasts !!

JuanSOLO · 2015-03-14T00:40:19.000Z

One thing the OT does thats different from the A4,
you can plock the arp on and off.

clunky · 2015-03-14T04:34:05.000Z

""JuanSOLO"":

One thing the OT does thats different from the A4,
you can plock the arp on and off.

shame that whole thing is not p lk AND added to the other machines

been on about that for years with the MnM arp!!!

absolut killer feature going begging

rikrak · 2015-03-14T11:21:20.000Z

""JuanSOLO"":

One thing the OT does thats different from the A4,
you can plock the arp on and off.

I like the fact that you can plock all the parameters from that page, Type, Speed, Direction etc.

The OTs time-sig and clock-divider per track scale settings are very useful. I expect they will come to the A4/AK with a future OS upgrade.

The A4/AKs slide, swing, accent features all seem unfinished to me. There could be more configurability. Egs. I would like to choose which steps swing and an amount of accent.

Zymos · 2015-03-14T12:06:37.000Z

…you lost me with the part about disappointment with the A4’s sound…

avantronica · 2015-03-14T12:29:44.000Z

""rikrak"":

The A4/AKs slide, swing, accent features all seem unfinished to me. … Egs. I would like to choose which steps swing and an amount of accent.

Afaik it already does those, no !?

LaughingAnimal · 2015-03-14T12:53:46.000Z

OT can do parameter slides on audio tracks and can use envelopes as modulation sources in place of a lfo. You won’t get your standard adsr but you can use the lfo shapes in one shot or half mode, or use the lfo designer to draw your envelope.

rikrak · 2015-03-14T15:10:58.000Z

""avantronica"":

[quote=“rikrak”]The A4/AKs slide, swing, accent features all seem unfinished to me. … Egs. I would like to choose which steps swing and an amount of accent.

Afaik it already does those, no !?[/quote]
Really? I can’t check the AK right now but I mean that I want to select some trigs to swing and others to not (as you can with the OT) - and i want set some trigs to have a certain accent amount and others more/less.

The manual doesn’t mention being able to do these things… But maybe I’m wrong. Hope so!

Autopoiesis · 2015-03-14T19:30:49.000Z

""avantronica"":

internal parameter locking and external midi plocking (OT) are different

if you plock a param on A4 step 1 it will blip for step 1
if you do this on OT it will offset the value on all steps

if the 16 steps contain plocks then both will behave the same (no slides)

no issues with the sound of the A4 here, everything else is a bonus

a4 sequencer is much more direct and simultaneous multi trig locking is possible

the A4 works on 14bit resolution with many params
the OT sends out 7bit

cheese and chalk for smooth fine control

different beasts !!

True. You could also work around this on the OT with a plocked LFO in ‘ONE’ trig mode, but I could see how this, or using additional plocks to return to baseline, could be nicer to not have to think about on the A4.

Autopoiesis · 2015-03-14T19:56:08.000Z

""Zymos"":

…you lost me with the part about disappointment with the A4’s sound…

I understand that I’m not going to get a lot of sympathy on this forum for this opinion, but I’m personally not bowled over by the A4’s sound before you lather on the (really nice!) effects and tweak everything over a running sequence.

It seems to have its center of gravity in a particularly tame place, as if there’s a layer of wool covering the sound, and when you try to make it “grittier” it veers too close to chiptuney territory for my tastes. And no, I’m not listening to it through the headphones jack or through the OT, and I have calibrated it. Perhaps it rewards those with the patience to spend extra time digging for sweet spots of a different nature.

Autopoiesis · 2015-03-14T19:58:02.000Z

""rikrak"":

[quote=“avantronica”][quote=“rikrak”]The A4/AKs slide, swing, accent features all seem unfinished to me. … Egs. I would like to choose which steps swing and an amount of accent.

Afaik it already does those, no !?[/quote]
Really? I can’t check the AK right now but I mean that I want to select some trigs to swing and others to not (as you can with the OT) - and i want set some trigs to have a certain accent amount and others more/less.

The manual doesn’t mention being able to do these things… But maybe I’m wrong. Hope so! [/quote]
Swing is a pattern-level parameter, not one that can be adjusted on a per-trig basis. Accent is either On or Off per trig, but the level at which those steps are accented is global AFAIK.

license · 2015-03-14T20:40:04.000Z

""LaughingAnimal"":

OT can do parameter slides on audio tracks and can use envelopes as modulation sources in place of a lfo.

Wait, what? How do you do this?

avantronica · 2015-03-14T21:52:01.000Z

""rikrak"":

[quote=“avantronica”][quote=“rikrak”]The A4/AKs slide, swing, accent features all seem unfinished to me. … Egs. I would like to choose which steps swing and an amount of accent.

Afaik it already does those, no !?[/quote]
Really? I can’t check the AK right now but I mean that I want to select some trigs to swing and others to not (as you can with the OT) - and i want set some trigs to have a certain accent amount and others more/less.

The manual doesn’t mention being able to do these things… But maybe I’m wrong. Hope so! [/quote]
i thought you meant overall amount of accent (that’s a no) but the swing toggle per trig is doable and nudge-able etc

avantronica · 2015-03-14T21:57:39.000Z

[quote=““Autopoiesis””]

rikrak:

I want to select some trigs to swing and others to not (as you can with the OT)

Swing is a pattern-level parameter, not one that can be adjusted on a per-trig basis. [/quote]
he meant to select which trigs are swung (which is a Yes), not the amount per trig ( for which you can get all bespoke on your groove by micro timing anyway)

avantronica · 2015-03-14T22:04:39.000Z

""license"":

[quote=“LaughingAnimal”]OT can do parameter slides on audio tracks and can use envelopes as modulation sources in place of a lfo.

Wait, what? How do you do this?[/quote]
he means lfos being used like envelopes (i.e. unipolar) at the cost of an lfo - and of course the lfo designer can generate complicated mod ‘envelopes’ !

Autopoiesis · 2015-05-13T06:32:15.000Z

[quote=“” Zymos""]
…you lost me with the part about disappointment with the A4’s sound…
[/quote]

Revisiting this now after having dug deeper into the A4 beyond my initial impatient assessment - I take the statement back. You just sometimes have to go to town on the modulation patchings to bring the gold out, but it’s there to be panned!
Anyway, thanks all for your views on the sequencer differences. It’s clear that both machines have unique strengths in that area.
Now I just have to accept the fact that there’s nothing wrong with using more than 2 Elektron boxes in a pretty spare studio. Silly, I know.

Abhoth · 2015-05-13T07:39:00.000Z

I usually sequence the A4 from the OT so that I can use the pattern offset and length features in the OT Arranger + clock dividers per track. If those were added to the A4 at some point, I would probably prefer to use the A4 sequencer instead.

…and now it just occured to me that using both at the same time might be fun. Notes from the OT and parameter locks/slides, accents etc. on the A4. For example chords from an OT track at 1/4 tempo combined with a normal tempo A4 track with parameter locks/slides etc. Or setting the A4 and OT patterns to different lengths, sequence some notes on both patterns and sit back and listen to an evolving melodic sequence as the two fight it out.

reeloy · 2015-05-13T08:09:37.000Z

…what a hogwash thread,

…at the heart, both sequncers are pretty much the same thing…

and the essential difference is, you’re talking 'bout two complete different machines…

and one of them can trigger external midi gear with it’s sequencer…and the other can’t…

that one with this poor sound you read about somewhere…you know…

miketheman · 2015-05-13T09:26:56.000Z

""Abhoth"":

I usually sequence the A4 from the OT so that I can use the pattern offset and length features in the OT Arranger + clock dividers per track. If those were added to the A4 at some point, I would probably prefer to use the A4 sequencer instead.

…and now it just occured to me that using both at the same time might be fun. Notes from the OT and parameter locks/slides, accents etc. on the A4. For example chords from an OT track at 1/4 tempo combined with a normal tempo A4 track with parameter locks/slides etc. Or setting the A4 and OT patterns to different lengths, sequence some notes on both patterns and sit back and listen to an evolving melodic sequence as the two fight it out.

Wonder which one wins the ‘battle’?

This similar to some really fun stuff I´ve been doing with my OT + NM G2 Engine at home. Sending MIDI back and forth and hearing how both units adapts to each other. How one unit has its implications/limitations that can be used to your advance.

The next level (if/whenever I get the time) is to set an recorder buffer properly so it automatically records bits, that can be saved to samples. Perhaps even pre-sliced and time limited so that every sound that gets sampled won´t be longer than a slice.