Octa vs. A4 sequencer

LaughingAnimal · 2015-03-14T12:53:46.000Z

OT can do parameter slides on audio tracks and can use envelopes as modulation sources in place of a lfo. You won’t get your standard adsr but you can use the lfo shapes in one shot or half mode, or use the lfo designer to draw your envelope.

rikrak · 2015-03-14T15:10:58.000Z

""avantronica"":

[quote=“rikrak”]The A4/AKs slide, swing, accent features all seem unfinished to me. … Egs. I would like to choose which steps swing and an amount of accent.

Afaik it already does those, no !?[/quote]
Really? I can’t check the AK right now but I mean that I want to select some trigs to swing and others to not (as you can with the OT) - and i want set some trigs to have a certain accent amount and others more/less.

The manual doesn’t mention being able to do these things… But maybe I’m wrong. Hope so!

Autopoiesis · 2015-03-14T19:30:49.000Z

""avantronica"":

internal parameter locking and external midi plocking (OT) are different

if you plock a param on A4 step 1 it will blip for step 1
if you do this on OT it will offset the value on all steps

if the 16 steps contain plocks then both will behave the same (no slides)

no issues with the sound of the A4 here, everything else is a bonus

a4 sequencer is much more direct and simultaneous multi trig locking is possible

the A4 works on 14bit resolution with many params
the OT sends out 7bit

cheese and chalk for smooth fine control

different beasts !!

True. You could also work around this on the OT with a plocked LFO in ‘ONE’ trig mode, but I could see how this, or using additional plocks to return to baseline, could be nicer to not have to think about on the A4.

Autopoiesis · 2015-03-14T19:56:08.000Z

""Zymos"":

…you lost me with the part about disappointment with the A4’s sound…

I understand that I’m not going to get a lot of sympathy on this forum for this opinion, but I’m personally not bowled over by the A4’s sound before you lather on the (really nice!) effects and tweak everything over a running sequence.

It seems to have its center of gravity in a particularly tame place, as if there’s a layer of wool covering the sound, and when you try to make it “grittier” it veers too close to chiptuney territory for my tastes. And no, I’m not listening to it through the headphones jack or through the OT, and I have calibrated it. Perhaps it rewards those with the patience to spend extra time digging for sweet spots of a different nature.

Autopoiesis · 2015-03-14T19:58:02.000Z

""rikrak"":

[quote=“avantronica”][quote=“rikrak”]The A4/AKs slide, swing, accent features all seem unfinished to me. … Egs. I would like to choose which steps swing and an amount of accent.

Afaik it already does those, no !?[/quote]
Really? I can’t check the AK right now but I mean that I want to select some trigs to swing and others to not (as you can with the OT) - and i want set some trigs to have a certain accent amount and others more/less.

The manual doesn’t mention being able to do these things… But maybe I’m wrong. Hope so! [/quote]
Swing is a pattern-level parameter, not one that can be adjusted on a per-trig basis. Accent is either On or Off per trig, but the level at which those steps are accented is global AFAIK.

license · 2015-03-14T20:40:04.000Z

""LaughingAnimal"":

OT can do parameter slides on audio tracks and can use envelopes as modulation sources in place of a lfo.

Wait, what? How do you do this?

avantronica · 2015-03-14T21:52:01.000Z

""rikrak"":

[quote=“avantronica”][quote=“rikrak”]The A4/AKs slide, swing, accent features all seem unfinished to me. … Egs. I would like to choose which steps swing and an amount of accent.

Afaik it already does those, no !?[/quote]
Really? I can’t check the AK right now but I mean that I want to select some trigs to swing and others to not (as you can with the OT) - and i want set some trigs to have a certain accent amount and others more/less.

The manual doesn’t mention being able to do these things… But maybe I’m wrong. Hope so! [/quote]
i thought you meant overall amount of accent (that’s a no) but the swing toggle per trig is doable and nudge-able etc

avantronica · 2015-03-14T21:57:39.000Z

[quote=““Autopoiesis””]

rikrak:

I want to select some trigs to swing and others to not (as you can with the OT)

Swing is a pattern-level parameter, not one that can be adjusted on a per-trig basis. [/quote]
he meant to select which trigs are swung (which is a Yes), not the amount per trig ( for which you can get all bespoke on your groove by micro timing anyway)

avantronica · 2015-03-14T22:04:39.000Z

""license"":

[quote=“LaughingAnimal”]OT can do parameter slides on audio tracks and can use envelopes as modulation sources in place of a lfo.

Wait, what? How do you do this?[/quote]
he means lfos being used like envelopes (i.e. unipolar) at the cost of an lfo - and of course the lfo designer can generate complicated mod ‘envelopes’ !

Autopoiesis · 2015-05-13T06:32:15.000Z

[quote=“” Zymos""]
…you lost me with the part about disappointment with the A4’s sound…
[/quote]

Revisiting this now after having dug deeper into the A4 beyond my initial impatient assessment - I take the statement back. You just sometimes have to go to town on the modulation patchings to bring the gold out, but it’s there to be panned!
Anyway, thanks all for your views on the sequencer differences. It’s clear that both machines have unique strengths in that area.
Now I just have to accept the fact that there’s nothing wrong with using more than 2 Elektron boxes in a pretty spare studio. Silly, I know.

Abhoth · 2015-05-13T07:39:00.000Z

I usually sequence the A4 from the OT so that I can use the pattern offset and length features in the OT Arranger + clock dividers per track. If those were added to the A4 at some point, I would probably prefer to use the A4 sequencer instead.

…and now it just occured to me that using both at the same time might be fun. Notes from the OT and parameter locks/slides, accents etc. on the A4. For example chords from an OT track at 1/4 tempo combined with a normal tempo A4 track with parameter locks/slides etc. Or setting the A4 and OT patterns to different lengths, sequence some notes on both patterns and sit back and listen to an evolving melodic sequence as the two fight it out.

reeloy · 2015-05-13T08:09:37.000Z

…what a hogwash thread,

…at the heart, both sequncers are pretty much the same thing…

and the essential difference is, you’re talking 'bout two complete different machines…

and one of them can trigger external midi gear with it’s sequencer…and the other can’t…

that one with this poor sound you read about somewhere…you know…

miketheman · 2015-05-13T09:26:56.000Z

""Abhoth"":

I usually sequence the A4 from the OT so that I can use the pattern offset and length features in the OT Arranger + clock dividers per track. If those were added to the A4 at some point, I would probably prefer to use the A4 sequencer instead.

…and now it just occured to me that using both at the same time might be fun. Notes from the OT and parameter locks/slides, accents etc. on the A4. For example chords from an OT track at 1/4 tempo combined with a normal tempo A4 track with parameter locks/slides etc. Or setting the A4 and OT patterns to different lengths, sequence some notes on both patterns and sit back and listen to an evolving melodic sequence as the two fight it out.

Wonder which one wins the ‘battle’?

This similar to some really fun stuff I´ve been doing with my OT + NM G2 Engine at home. Sending MIDI back and forth and hearing how both units adapts to each other. How one unit has its implications/limitations that can be used to your advance.

The next level (if/whenever I get the time) is to set an recorder buffer properly so it automatically records bits, that can be saved to samples. Perhaps even pre-sliced and time limited so that every sound that gets sampled won´t be longer than a slice.

Abhoth · 2015-05-13T11:06:55.000Z

""miketheman"":

This similar to some really fun stuff I´ve been doing with my OT + NM G2 Engine at home. Sending MIDI back and forth and hearing how both units adapts to each other. How one unit has its implications/limitations that can be used to your advance.

The next level (if/whenever I get the time) is to set an recorder buffer properly so it automatically records bits, that can be saved to samples. Perhaps even pre-sliced and time limited so that every sound that gets sampled won´t be longer than a slice.

Nice! I love toying with stuff like this to see what happens. More often than not I end up with something better than what I’d been able to come up with deliberately.

jim5 · 2015-05-13T21:08:21.000Z

""Abhoth"":

I usually sequence the A4 from the OT so that I can use the pattern offset and length features in the OT Arranger + clock dividers per track. If those were added to the A4 at some point, I would probably prefer to use the A4 sequencer instead.

…and now it just occured to me that using both at the same time might be fun. Notes from the OT and parameter locks/slides, accents etc. on the A4. For example chords from an OT track at 1/4 tempo combined with a normal tempo A4 track with parameter locks/slides etc. Or setting the A4 and OT patterns to different lengths, sequence some notes on both patterns and sit back and listen to an evolving melodic sequence as the two fight it out.

I don’t thinks the parameter locks work on external midi notes on the A4. At least I couldn’t get it to work.

Parameter locks using trigless trig on the A4 had no effect on the sequence played from the OT or playing a note from an external keyboard.

Let me know if you figure it out.

AdamJay · 2015-05-13T23:19:11.000Z

""Autopoiesis"":

I understand that I’m not going to get a lot of sympathy on this forum for this opinion, but I’m personally not bowled over by the A4’s sound before you lather on the (really nice!) effects and tweak everything over a running sequence.

It seems to have its center of gravity in a particularly tame place, as if there’s a layer of wool covering the sound, and when you try to make it “grittier” it veers too close to chiptuney territory for my tastes. And no, I’m not listening to it through the headphones jack or through the OT, and I have calibrated it. Perhaps it rewards those with the patience to spend extra time digging for sweet spots of a different nature.

I liken it to a bicycle vs a tricycle. Anyone can get on and ride a tricycle. Just by looking at it, you can watch someone ride it and get on yourself and know how to make it go.

The bicycle (A4), on the other hand, if you’ve never ridden one, is quite different. Sure, you can watch someone ride, but the first time you get on is not going to be comfortable at all. However, once you find your balance through experience and as you said it, patience, well… it turns out you can go much farther, and even faster with the bicycle. There is a learning curve, but the benefit of that is the A4 won’t hold you back with simplicity. It is capable of a multitude of sounds, and of exceptional quality.

You can look at it like it’s demanding more of you, but generally speaking the things that demand more of you give more in return.

Also, I’ve seen exactly three people make statements on the forum about feeling pretty “meh” about the A4 sound, only to turn around some months later to take the statements back.

djadonis206 · 2015-05-13T23:33:00.000Z

There’s a few free A4 sample packs worth downloading from Elektron.

I’ve noticed some of the sounds included in those packs are huge with few to no FX applied. Reverse engineer some of those to see what’s capable with just some minor tweaks here and there.

Big sounds, dirty sounds, clean sounds - etc etc

Autopoiesis · 2015-05-14T01:26:51.000Z

""AdamJay"":

[quote=“Autopoiesis”]I understand that I’m not going to get a lot of sympathy on this forum for this opinion, but I’m personally not bowled over by the A4’s sound before you lather on the (really nice!) effects and tweak everything over a running sequence.

It seems to have its center of gravity in a particularly tame place, as if there’s a layer of wool covering the sound, and when you try to make it “grittier” it veers too close to chiptuney territory for my tastes. And no, I’m not listening to it through the headphones jack or through the OT, and I have calibrated it. Perhaps it rewards those with the patience to spend extra time digging for sweet spots of a different nature.

I liken it to a bicycle vs a tricycle. Anyone can get on and ride a tricycle. Just by looking at it, you can watch someone ride it and get on yourself and know how to make it go.

The bicycle (A4), on the other hand, if you’ve never ridden one, is quite different. Sure, you can watch someone ride, but the first time you get on is not going to be comfortable at all. However, once you find your balance through experience and as you said it, patience, well… it turns out you can go much farther, and even faster with the bicycle. There is a learning curve, but the benefit of that is the A4 won’t hold you back with simplicity. It is capable of a multitude of sounds, and of exceptional quality.

You can look at it like it’s demanding more of you, but generally speaking the things that demand more of you give more in return.

Also, I’ve seen exactly three people make statements on the forum about feeling pretty “meh” about the A4 sound, only to turn around some months later to take the statements back.[/quote]
Absolutely agreed. I posted in this thread earlier today about how I’ve changed my views on this, and I’m quite happy about my change of heart because there’s so much functionality packed into the box for its footprint and price.
I had been put off initially by the kinda unusual behavior of the filters and oscillators and by most of the presets out there, but I was very pleasantly surprised by my results after experimenting with ENV2 and some subtle performance macros. I feel now that the raw material might not be instantly gratifying, but the modulation options are there to transmute it into just about whatever you want.

AdamJay · 2015-05-14T01:47:57.000Z

""Autopoiesis"":

Absolutely agreed. I posted in this thread earlier today about how I’ve changed my views on this, and I’m quite happy about my change of heart because there’s so much functionality packed into the box for its footprint and price.
I had been put off initially by the kinda unusual behavior of the filters and oscillators and by most of the presets out there, but I was very pleasantly surprised by my results after experimenting with ENV2 and some subtle performance macros. I feel now that the raw material might not be instantly gratifying, but the modulation options are there to transmute it into just about whatever you want.

Good to hear. Guess I should have read on

For me, it was discovering how precise Filter 1 is, and how musical Filter 2 can be. Quite different than other synths.

There was a point for me when the A4 hadn’t really clicked in my workflow, and I gave myself a week of heavy use before deciding to keep it. During that week, I forced some rules onto myself; to fill all the Performance macros, utilize every LFO and env destination on each voice, and also hit the parameter lock limit in the kits I was using.
Before I even got to fulfill the last rule I had written three new tracks and there was no way I was letting go of my A4.

Anyway, we’ve got this off topic enough…
Carry on, Octatrackers…

Abhoth · 2015-05-20T20:29:34.000Z

""jim5"":

[quote=“Abhoth”]…and now it just occured to me that using both at the same time might be fun. Notes from the OT and parameter locks/slides, accents etc. on the A4. For example chords from an OT track at 1/4 tempo combined with a normal tempo A4 track with parameter locks/slides etc. Or setting the A4 and OT patterns to different lengths, sequence some notes on both patterns and sit back and listen to an evolving melodic sequence as the two fight it out.

I don’t thinks the parameter locks work on external midi notes on the A4. At least I couldn’t get it to work.

Parameter locks using trigless trig on the A4 had no effect on the sequence played from the OT or playing a note from an external keyboard.

Let me know if you figure it out.[/quote]
I finally got around to try this today, and I couldn’t get parameter locks to work either. As long as a midi note is played the A4 sequencer is ignored, just like you said. By playing staccato and having a long decay the p-locks kicked in, though.

I also tried to play notes from both sequencers to create a mixed sequence, and that seemed to work. Which I guess is logical given the above. Incoming midi gets priority, but when the note ends, local notes gets played.