Novation Circuit Rhythm and Circuit Tracks

The Lounge Other Gear
1705

Bit of an odd request but could someone please test something for me? I was wondering what happens if you put exactly the same sample on two tracks and trigger them at the same time.

Does it create a phasing effect?

If anyone tries this, please try it with a sample at least 12 seconds long and listen for any phasing over the whole 12 seconds as the samples play simultaneously. I see there’s no EQ on this box (which is a big deal for me), but if it passes this test without phasing, it should be possible to simulate one reasonably well.

It’s great to see they made the effects editable ‘on-device’ in the latest update, but it’s a bit weird they never took advantage of that by adding new effects (like an EQ for example).

1706

Just wanted to clarify some things regards my previous message, because when I say “trigger them at the same time”, I’m referring to having them triggered by the sequencer, not by hand.

The test would likely result in one of the following:

A - Phasing.
B - Stereo-widening.
C - Volume increase.
D - No change.

If it results in either A or B then I’m afraid it won’t work.
If it results in either C or D then it should work (at least in theory).

Can’t test it myself. I don’t own the Rhythm due to it not having an EQ.

1707

Just tried it with a break and a pad sample, stereo widening occurred on my unit, and some extremely light phasing…

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1708

Well that sucks but thanks for testing it mate, it’s much appreciated.

Hopefully, now that we can edit the effects on-device, they might add a desperately needed EQ to the list of available effects. Unfortunately it’s a total deal-breaker for me, it lacking an EQ.

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1709

I’m not sure which of the devices you are using, but isn’t either better sample prep for preloaded samples, or recording/resampling through eq the answer?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing the premise of having eq on board, just curious about what you’re suggesting with questions about phasing etc

1710

Maybe if people are paying attention to the phasing, they won’t be paying attention to all the EQ work a track needs. Sleight of hand.

1711

I thought about approximating an on-board EQ through use of filtering and sample layering.

On the Rhythm, a person might use the filters and resonance to cut and boost frequencies. But that’s not really enough because while you can use, say a resonant LPF to boost frequencies at a specific frequency, the problem is it also cuts whatever is above it.

So I thought well since we can trigger multiple samples using the sequencer, it would be possible to have two identical samples layered so that when you apply the filter to one of the samples but not the other, you will still get that boost from the resonance used on the first sample, but the layered second sample (which is triggered at exactly the same time) replaces the audio that was removed above the cutoff frequency of the first sample - know what I mean?

In effect, by layering two identical samples and filtering only one of them, it should fix the problem of the missing frequencies of using filters on their own, and you should, in theory at least, end up with an EQ of sorts.

This is why I asked about phasing and stereo-widening. Unfortunately, for it to work properly, the identical samples need to run in parallel in perfect sync, and although you might think you’re triggering them at exactly the same time by using the sequencer, there are things going on at a hardware level that can mean the playback speed of the samples on each track are drifting very slightly as they play back, and it’s this ‘drifting’ that causes the phasing effect. The other issue, stereo-widening, is caused by one sample starting slightly before the other.

So that’s why the test needed to result in C or D, because if it had done then I don’t see why the idea wouldn’t work. Unfortunately it resuited in A and B which means it wouldn’t work, not properly anyway. I’m just trying to get around the frustrating lack of an EQ really. I desperately want to buy a Circuit Rhythm, but the lack of an EQ is an absolute deal-breaker for me.

I hope they add EQ as an new ‘Pad Effect’ now that we can edit those pad effects ‘on-device’.

1712

I’m not exactly sure what sound you have in mind. But I pretty much always use 3 or 4 tracks with identical samples so I can run them with different filter settings. There’s definitely a little phasing but if you’ve got like one track handling lows, one handling mids, and one handling highs you’re not really going to hear it. Pretty much every beat I’ve ever posted with the Circuit Rhythm uses this technique. For example:

For this project, I used both the Rhythm and the Digitakt. The Rhythm is handling all the melodic samples and the Digitakt is handling the drums. So I’m using 3 filters for most of the tracks as well as the master filter.

An eq would be nice though.

2 Likes
1713

Chilled beats, Doug!

Yeah, would be nice to have EQ. And actually, the Digitakt is another box I don’t own due to it not having an EQ either! Also there was another issue with the Digitakt if I recall, lack of a song mode I think it was, something like that, can’t remember now.

I’m not after any specific sort of “sound”. I just need an EQ for the same reason anyone would need an EQ, that being to finess and sculpt the audio I’m working with. I mean, how nice would it be to put a different percussion instrument on each track for example, and while it’s playing, just switch between the tracks and adjust the EQ of each to get it sounding killer?

Stone262 suggests putting an external EQ before sampling into the Rhythm, but that’s a completely different workflow and we really shouldn’t need to do that.

Say I have a whole bunch of samples going and decide the vocal sample needs more clarity. I expect to select the sample and boost the high frequencies with an EQ, just like that. Or say I have a bassline I want to thicken-up by boosting the bass. Again, I expect to select the sample and boost the bass frequencies with an EQ, just like that.

I suppose the previous version made it unviable due to the effects not being editable on-device. But they fixed that in the latest update, and this really opens-up the possibility of adding an EQ as a new Pad Effect, so I really hope they do that!

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1714

I hear you. I wish the Digitone external input had high/low pass filtering at the very least for example.

External EQ is a bunch of mucking around but maybe less than the method you were thinking.

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1715

I want the Grid Fx expanded a bit too, they are great but a few extras and the ability to bypass them for certain tracks would be awesome

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1716

I can totally understand some of the user base wanting an eq, it’d be nice but I haven’t had any trouble so far getting a clean sounding track out of it… if it comes then yay, if not I’m still good and having fun with it…

3 Likes
1717

@Stone262
The main problem I have with the external approach is that once you have it sampled in, you’re stuck with it and need to repeatedly sample it back in until you get it right.

@darenager
I was always under the impression that the Grid FX were settable on a per track basis, so you got me wondering now! I thought they were per track and even have the ability to layer them, so I’m really curious what you mean by that.

@Symian
I’m surprised at how little importance people give to EQ on audio tools these days, but to be fair, Novation aren’t the only company missing an EQ on their grooveboxes!

I honestly can’t think of a single more important effect to have on a groovebox than an EQ, I mean I literally can’t think of one. Had a SX a few years back and by far the most enjoyable aspect of that box for me was the Isolator effect. The way Roland do their Isolator is way better than on any other brand I’ve heard, because it actually boosts as well as cuts. So it basically acts like a three band EQ but with exra cutting and boosting power.

Don’t know if you have one or have tried one, but if you have you’ll know what I mean, and man, to have an effect like that on the Rhythm would be amazing!

So even a Roland SP-style Isolator effect would do it. I think the difference it would make to the quality of production coming from the unit is not something people should take lightly. It would make a world of difference. I think the reason that productions from SP gear sounds so fat, ballsy and crisp is due to the user having the luxury of EQ and that fantastic Isolator on board.

But there’s nothing like that on the Rhythm, no proper way to boost frequencies at all, so the productions I hear coming from it tend (in general) to sound flat and lifeless, less ballsy etc.

1718

Yeah I don’t have experience of any Roland gear so I can’t speak on it myself, you’re right though in some respects and for now it comes down to how much you wanna do with the kit you’re sampling in from, it I’m using my phone to sample stuff from my music collection the app I use to play it has a very decent eq built in which is helpful and if I’m using YouTube I’ll just search for the best quality upload I can find…

Also I’m one of those guys that’s tends not agonise over details too much, for me near enough is good enough in most case, life’s too short to let the small things get in the way of a good time

As far as the grid fx goes they’re global and affect all tracks simultaneously…:+1:

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1719

I’m the same in regards that sentiment, but there’s no way can get along with audio production tools that don’t have an EQ.

Anyway, thanks for confirming what darenager said. I think the device is possibly a bit too basic for me after hearing about that, so I doubt I’ll be going for it anyway. I misinterpreted what I was seeing in the videos. I was under the impression that the Reverb and Compressor were global, but that the stackable Grid FX were per channel.

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1720

Happy hunting on the groove box front fella and welcome to the board btw. .:+1:

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1721

Cheers mate and thanks again for testing :+1:

1722

Agreed. It doesn’t even have to be an EQ; just an HPF/LPF can be a huge help. By way of example, the base/width filter on the Digitone is a criminally underrated feature.

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1723

The way the fx work is this. The reverb and delay are send fx. But you can only send the internal tracks through them. Not your external signal. You have a bunch of presets for your reverb and delay settings that sadly, cannot be edited.

After that your internal tracks, the reverb, and the delay are routed through the grid fx. The grid fx also use a preset system. But you can edit these. You can use all of the fx at once if you want. But you can only use one preset for each effect type at a time. So you can have your vinyl effect and your digitize effect going at the same time, for example. But you can’t use two vinyl effect presets at once, which makes sense.

After that, everything goes through the master filter.

I would love to be able to have tracks bypass some or all of the grid fx and the master filter. I’d love if I could do something like put the digitize effect before the reverb and delay. I’d love if I could edit the reverb and delay settings. But Novation doesn’t want me to be happy so I can’t do any of those things.

The Rhythm has high pass and low pass per track. I mostly like them better than the filters on the Digitakt. I think it’s mainly that the high pass does a better job of scooping off the low end than the base-width filter does.

What I don’t like about the Rhythm’s filters is that only the low pass is resonant. I’d love if I could switch that around and have a resonant high pass, especially for my drums. Or better yet both.

But again, Novation doesn’t want me to be happy.

Why can’t companies just snap their fingers and make all the changes we want?

1 Like
1724

@presteign
Yeah but no boost though, that’s the problem with make-doing with standard filters, there’s no boost. Gotta have boost man, gotta have boost and the more boot the better!

Some EQ are shitty little +10db efforts, the better ones are +12db and +15db, but the ones that can really register your bass on the Richter Scale are those +18db and +24db monsters!

Standard filters on the other hand are precisely +0db and that’s the problem - no boost!

@Doug
I think I sense some sarcasm in there, but point taken. That said, I make no apologies whatsoever for expecting to see an EQ on a multi-channel pro-audio product. It’s not as if it’s something exotic. An EQ is considered a bare essential when it comes to audio, and it really should have had an EQ right from the start.

Interesting what you revealed about the effects implementation though. I was also under the wrong impression regards the Reveb and Delay then. I thought the only two effects that you can live-monitor through were the Reverb and Delay, so it looks like I managed to get that lot completely backward somehow!

I still do love the Rhythm though from what I’ve seen of it, and I still do want one, but like I said I could never get along with such a tool without an EQ. There’s other stuff out there so it’s not like the end of the world or anything, but I still think I would enjoy using the Rhythm if it were not quite as basic as it is.

No EQ though.