So… I suffer less from GAS than I did in the past. I haven’t really bought anything much this year. I’m keen to settle down with one groovebox and really get to know her well.
However, whilst I feel a little more resolute in terms of being seduced by the latest and newest shiny box, I don’t seem to be able to settle on the right machine.
I have tried pretty much every sampler and groovebox going and have sold them all, opting to make the DTII my life partner. That said, I (like others) struggle with song composition in the DTII . I find song mode a bit binary and segmented. I think I’d like something that works with samples and loops but allows a more 4-track style, “free” and continuous construction when it comes to song composition. I realize I might be asking for the moon on a stick, but ye. That’s where I’m at.
Anyhow, I’m thinking about going back to the M8 , which I sold a year or so ago. I sold it at the time because I felt it a bit OTT to have two machines that cover similar ground in terms of DTII and M8 . My thought was that the DTII would just be more my type of thing in terms of it being something more substantial l with pads and knobs . Something that would be more hands on…more like a four track in that sense. But now I’m thinking that maybe the machine that has got me closest to a finished piece of music , whilst feeling unsegmented , was probably the m8 .
I just don’t trust myself and I’m not sure if I’m looking back on my time with M8 through rose tinted lenses and this is yet another fruitless regression.
So. What am I asking for. Basically whether or not you come from a similar background in terms of having grown up on analog tape based machines and putting things together in that way. Also whether or not you have used both machines and have succeeded in making finished pieces on both machines.
Make a plan and stick to the plan. This is literal magic, which might be why magic spells are called that.
Edit: this works equally well for finishing tracks as it does for buying gear.
With a cheap notebook and decent pen you can make and finish tracks with any gear. Just make a plan and follow it. (The plan can include instructions for updating the plan)
if your first sentence is true, what better reason is there to get back to M8? Workflow is king and these things are highly personal. So if you managed to make music on M8 but not on DT, reverse that decision. Unless you feel like you haven’t spent enough time trying to make DT work for your workflow.
Maybe best to listen back to those M8 tracks, think back on what it was really like to use it. If you still feel the same and can afford to buy one without selling DT, you could try those two for a bit and see if your feeling was right, then sell DT. Don’t know about M8, but aren’t the MK1 versions easy to get for cheap nowadays?
that’s too easy… with a laptop and a pen we’d all be superstars for years and would release our first 500 tracks for everyone for free (looking at you Moby). Naaaah… nobody liked that!
The old OP-1 offers this, but it’s 4 mono tracks and a bit limited and lofi albeit fun.
Maybe all you need is separating improvisation, composition and performance, though.
Looking at the process, taking the time to decide what you do in a DAW and what kind of back and forth with the hardware you should put in place…
If you want no DAW at all, then you still have to rationalize these aspects, only do it within the instrument itself, with the limitations of what it has to offer. Dedicate some time to this so that it becomes second nature.
For instance, on a DTII, you can reach your 4-track style, and use one pattern as four 4-track pieces.
To reach this, you can record 4 takes of a pattern you like and assign it to your performance pattern.
I think @Eaves had a video on this…
So yeah, I believe it’s less a matter of gear than how you use it to reach your goal.
For me, it’s the OP-XY that I use to make the fastest and furthest progress when building songs. I know that won’t help you, because the song arranger is even more rudimentary than the DT2.
However, the XY has the Brain feature, which quickly takes me to musical areas I’ve never been to before. That (and the polyphonic playing of multisamples) is more important to me than anything else.
Model 01’s are still holding their prices from what I’ve seen.
I’m thinking along the same lines as your first paragraph . Although, the “unless” sentence is what holds me back a little.
I was particularly inspired by the DTII promo vid and the track that is performed by Risa T in that video.
Am I right in thinking that she would’ve this together in Song mode ?? Or she just flipping between patterns live ? Maybe that is the way to go with the DTII . As opposed to laying everything down in song mode , maybe I should track a live performance ( changing patterns live , whilst twidling knobs in filter and fx sections )
I think maybe I’d need to be taught how to do this and I haven’t seen any tutorials that teach live performance on the DTII.
It’s kinda weird to me to talk about the M8 opposed to a song mode as the M8 is a tracker so it’s very close to a song mode to me. The DTII is so powerful damn… I can’t see any better (except if synthesis required for the groovebox of your dream) but yeah arranging opposed to perform to me it’s like editing video… the best is the horizontal timeline where your arrange audio/video, cut, copy, paste, fade, automations etc… the DAW is perfect for that. (maybe the MV8800 but it’s old now)
It’s all I hate for arranging a track/song (song mode/tracker way). I perfectly understand gear for live performance. If someone really want to go Dawless, and don’t gel with song mode, I guess you have to find somehow the horizontal timeline way of arranging could be the MPC Live/X… the Akai force… as every other cool groovebox that comes to mind are really patterns/song mode alike so…
to me the best of both worlds (not for performing) but arranging is the Hybrid Studio (Daw + Hardware) maybe it can depend on the music genre possibly. But anything needing a microscopic approach, one shot happening, very special transitions, … it’s really difficult to beat the DAW. or you take a Live Performance recorded approach which I also really like as well… kinda Studio Track / Live Rec… it’s also fine.
It’s close but in the m8 you are basically always in song mode …which makes it more similar to a 4 track I think. You kind of build as you go and everything is in front of you. In Song mode is more as if you go to a studio with a band. record the middle 8 … then the chorus…then a chorus with a drum fill …then the first part of the first verse …then the second part …And theeeeeen , you put it all together to make a song . It just totally unintuitive.
That’s why I’m thinking that maybe Song mode is the least important part of the DTII .
The m8 is not entirely fluid in this sense , but it is more coherent in terms of the fact you start at the start , copy past to the next line and so forth. It’s basically a small difference in the interface of the machine but it makes a difference.
(I hate to create music like that - certainly why I don’t like trackers)
But I also don’t like the song mode so. I guess I’m the DAW guy for arranging/mixing…
certainly subjective. And on which workflow gel the most with you to be more productive. I never was good in the programmer skin, but better in the performer skin. even with sequencing I click rec and play… rather than step sequence + quantize. I prefer to make x-takes to get the right one.
I mean trackers , in theory are the absolute opposite of sitting down with a synth and mic and recording something onto tape without theorising about composition.
A tracker is super cerebral . That’s what I dislike about it. But that said, it is definitely more intuitive in terms of song construction when compared to and MPC, Push SA and DT. It’s not the ideal for me… but I’m going to get the Launchpad Pro too in order to integrate more playability …and hopefully that’ll satisfy most needs.
Have I already found a workflow that is right for me and allows me to finish tracks/songs? → if the answer is yes and M8 was the tool, just go back to it and do what worked for you. Otherwise you’re just wasting time establishing a new workflow on other gear that might work or not.
If you haven’t already found a workflow that allows you to finish music, what’s holding you back?
Related to 2: is gear the solution to this or do you just have to think more about process? @LyingDalai made good points on that.
Personally, I find that DT II isn’t ideal for playing back longer samples while still jumping between patterns. I don’t like the limitations of notes having to be max. 128 steps long or infinite, and amp sustain/decay also having to be quite long and inifinite. Meaning you can’t just mute/unmute stuff when changing patterns. Arrangement stuff like that is done way easier in a DAW. But that’s maybe to deep into details and a personal thing.
No. Live record is for patterns, right ? I’m talking about flipping between already constructed patterns and changing parameters live and capturing that performance in song mode.
I don’t think so I usually find that this would be dope on any hardware to record the performance into the song mode that’s for sure (song mode is just pattern playlist kinda)
I guess I’m the DAW guy for arranging/mixing…
that’s for sure (song mode is just pattern playlist kinda)