Neumann HK120 vs existing monitors + Avantone Mixcube

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

Hey everyone!
About a year ago I moved the lab into a smaller space and had to realize that 8" speakers a just to big for this small room. When ever I cross reference my mixes on other speakers I feel they need more work on the mids, so I as many others before me got to know about those fabulous mix cubes.
Now I really like my speakers - Event TR8 XL- but, as I said the mids are not that great. Looking for other more full range systems I stumbled over the Neumanns and now I am wonder about this questions:

Would it make sense to sell the TR8s and replace the with the HK120s or just add a single Avantone to get a better picture of the mids.
The Neumans had s 5.25" speaker as the Avantones, but the go a bit lower and a bit higher.
The room is about 2.6m x 2.6m, treated with basstraps in each corner, floor to ceiling and a bunch of broadband absorbers.
I produce manly Techno, so low-end/ sub is actually important but also I don’t want to annoy my neighbours all the time.

Any discussion is more the welcome and appreciated!
Cheers,
Andreas

#2

I have Neumann kh120

They are really good- I moved recently in a smaller place and now they are too powerful

They go down quite a lot- I have placed them far from walls and from corners but the volume is very loud which means I need to use them at quite low volume as the SPL is quite high.

I am thinking to get a pair of 8010 instead.

#3

Hi Andreas,

I have the KH 120 and I’m really happy with them in my 3,5m x 3,5m room and never had problems with neighbours.

A friend of mine has the bigger Neumanns KH 310 and they are amazing for details and bass, but for bigger decisions like balancing I found mine work better. He has also one Fostex 6301 as an alternative to an avantone speaker, that works great as well.

In your case, I would probably go with the Neumanns. Or try and get an Avantone for one week and see if you get better results, before selling the other speakers.

#4

I have both the KH120s and the 8010s.
The 8010s in my setup are as loud as the KH120s (I followed the KH120 manual’ instructions for adjusting the acoustic level and I set the sound pressure level at 81 dB).
With both you will need a subwoofer.

#5

That is one of the issues I was thinking about. The TR8s XL go down low enough, but lack the mids. So if I go with the HK120s, I’d get the mids, but loose the lows.
What if I keep the big ones and add an avantone Mixcube to compensate?

#6

How much do you need to “go down”?
I use both KH120 and 8010 for my pipe organ practice, so I need a lot of low end to hear properly some of the pedal stops (32 and sometimes 64 feet) and that’s my Dynaudio 9S’ job.
I don’t know about the Mixcubes…

#7

Hard to say how low I really ‘need’, but the Mixcubes for examples drop off at around 90Hz the HKs go down to 50Hz.
I was wondering if I add a speaker which is great for the mids or if I get just one pair which could do both: great mids but still low enough to mix club music?

#8

My opinion, is you’re going to get a much much better overall mix on the Kh120s than the miscubes, it’s not even a competition,

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#9

If you have a treated room go for the Kh120

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#10

From all that I have heard, the mixcunless are completely unflattering, flat and don’t sound great. The idea being that, if your mix is no good, it will be exposed. If that sounds like it would work for you, then it could be a good choice to check your kids, or check a mix in mono. I’ve thought about getting one myself, but I’m creating enough to warrant another speaker.

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#11

Thank you all for your insights!
I think I will check the Neumanns next time I visit Thomann and leave the mix cubes.
The mix cubes seemed interesting because of their terrible sound, so having these as a reference was the idea.
And if I move into a bigger space I can add a subwoofer to the Neumanns no problem.

This is going a little off-topic, but how is everyone on mixing low end with headphones? Got a pair of DT770. When ever I listen to other tracks I find that I would have mixed in more low end than the “pro” tracks actually have.

#12

I used to have a pair of mixcubes. Sadly I had to sell them when moving country. Anyway, I often just used one to get an idea of how a mix would sound on a shitty mono system. For that, they are great and really help you focus on the mids for a while without much bass going on - though they still do have some bass, so it’s not an alien experience with everything below 100Hz suddenly cut or anything like that. The main reason for them is as far as I used them was ‘can I still clearly hear my bass and kick when played on a laptop, portable Bluetooth speaker or phone, etc etc’.

Also, I use DT770s for all composing and mixing because I can’t afford monitors right now and I’m not sure I could use them at a good enough volume anyway because of living in an apartment block. But you can mix on them perfectly fine as long as you get to know them very well. Listen to all your favourite songs on them as often as possible and you’ll get used to how much bass to have on your own tracks. It’s all relative. Also, there was a thread on here recently about using correction plugins to flatten the response of your cans if needed. Two main suggestions came up. Sonarworks and Waves Abbey Road something or other. Sorry I don’t have direct links right now!

Edit: here’s the thread! Composition and mixing with headphones only?

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#13

100%, Craig! The reason I consider the mix cubes was the same diameter as the Neumanns woofer.
And I agree that the 90Hz is a roll- off, not a 48db low-cut. So it shouldn’t be too dramatic.
Most people consume music on shitty speakers, so I think it makes sense to have some reference other than ear plugs from your phone.
Still, I think I’ll check the Neumanns to get an all rounder and see how that goes.

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#14

kh120 + sonarworks is almost always a professional listening environment. i have both the neumanns and a mix cube. its not close. mix cubes serve a very specific purpose. i can’t 100% mix on them. not even 25% probably

edit: and i dont believe you need a sub either. especially if you have a nice set of cans. throw the sonarworks on that too and voila lol

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#15

Sorry to revive an old thread but I’m considering a pair of KH 120’s to replace my ageing TR5’s (I saw this thread when I did a search). Did you get them in the end or go with another option?

#16

Yes, I got a pair Neumans KH120s and am super happy with them. They work very well for the small studio space I have. For bigger rooms a sub would be a great addition. I am positive that you’ll enjoy them a ton.

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#17

Buying a new monitor is more involved and will require more „relearning“ than just getting a mixcube. A mixcube will also not „fix“ the mid-range issuses you have with your Events, it‘s an additional mix tool that stands on its own. My tip would be to get a single mixcube and run an alt out through it in mono regardless of what your main monitor set is. It will give you a different perspective on your mix that should compliment (but not replace!) the perspective you get from your mains.

I‘ve had an 8 inch speaker system in a 5x4m room that is treated to an ok level. At low volumes I didn‘t have any problems with their size, but if you mix at louder volumes or your room is not treated, a system that‘s too big for your room can cause all sorts of issues.

The Neumann KH120 are fantastic monitors. If you want them, you should get them. To my understanding they are in another tier entirely than the Event TR8XLs (with the little I know about the Events). The single mixcube should be an addition regardless of your main setup, it will help you get a different perspective on the mids of your mix (note I didn‘t write a „better“ perspective). Also, many consider the MixCube to be a „grotbox“ so don‘t expect it to sound good lol.

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