Need MIDI Out and Thru at the same time?

Elektron Gear
#1

I’m using a DN and DT combo with the DN acting as the master. I also have a Remote SL keyboard that I have mapped for various settings on both the DN and DT. I know that if I’m using MIDI Out from DN to DT, I need to actually arm the MIDI channels on the DN to the DT. However, since there are only 4 channels on the DN and 8 on the DT, I can’t actually send everything through. Is there a way to have all the MIDI from channels 1-8 on my keyboard pass through the DN to the DT? I run into this issue on the Octatrack, as well. Shouldn’t there be an option for MIDI Out to also mimic MIDI Thru at the same time for these types of applications?

EDIT: In further testing, even switching to the DT as the brain and arming all 8 midi tracks to correspond with the DN doesn’t totally work. I can play notes no problem, but the faders on the Remote are not effecting the DT or DN in any way. I was able to get this working on the OT with the OT as brain and sending faders through the OT into the DN no problem.

#2

I don’t get exactly what you want to achieve but to answer your main question:
Shouldn’t there be an option for MIDI Out to also mimic MIDI Thru at the same time for these types of applications?

NO, at least with Elektron Boxes.
I believe that only some synths produced by DSI (now Sequential) were or are able to do that (Smith is the inventor of Midi). Standard Midi stuff (like in elektron boxes), no.

#3

Here’s the setup.

DT is brain with tracks 1-8 on MIDI channels 1-8
DN is slave with tracks 1-4 on MIDI channels 11-14

I have a Novation Remote SL keyboard with knobs and faders that I have going INTO the DT to control mutes, volume levels, and a few other things. I also want to be able to control the DN with the keyboard, as well.

On my Octrack, with that acting as the brain, I am able to set up the MIDI channels to reflect the DN ones and then the keyboard passes right through. Also, I do not need to use Autochannel in this case. On the Digitakt, that does not happen. I can play the keys on the DN channels, but MIDI controller CCs do not pass through, even when I arm them on the Digitakt MIDI channels. Along with that, the MIDI DT controls WILL control the DN, but the keyboard doesn’t work. I can make a video if necessary.

#4

are You sending the proper cc to the dt/dn. To control the assignable encoders on the midi tracks you need to send cc70-77 (encoder A is cc70, encoderB is 71, etc) and the those encoders will then send whichever cc they have been assigned.

Also you have to use autochanel for what you want to do in DT/DN.

Cc will just pass thru the thru port, not midi out, as that is how midi functions

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#5

Ah. I see. I’ll have to mess with those CCs. Autochannel won’t work since I can’t control more than one channel at a time in that manner.

Changing the channel worked. Thanks!

#6

I will answer according to my understanding of what you want to do given that I own an sl mk2 but not the digital boxes (i got the analogs).

First of all create a template for the novation in order to control mutes and other stuff: knobs and faders should be mapped to digitakt parameters (according to manual) with a static midi channel (1-8). In other words these parameters are always on a fixed midi channel (the relevant for the track). Set the keyboard (I mean the literally the keybed midi output) on the Digitone autochannel (9 for ex) (always static in the template).

Novation midi out—>Digitakt Midi in
Digitakt Midi thru—>Digitone Midi in

Digitakt Midi thru should send sync to the Digitone (I don’t know if there is a setting for that).
In this way you shoud be able to control params on Digitakt and play the Digitone if that is what you are after.

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#7

The DT does not send sync and transport via MID THru. I tried it already. It’s a bummer.

#8

There is no sync B (midi thru) option on digital boxes?

#9

Nope

#10

There is actually. I cannot verify myself because I got everything connected to a rack midi router.
The problem is that It may be disabled (Sync B on midi thru port) if it reads an incoming signal on midi in.
What you may try to verify this is to make sure that all elektron boxes a set correctly to be in send/receive mode for clock and make sure that the novation is NOT sending out clock signal because It might be that SyncB gets disabled specifically if it reads a clock on midi in.

#11

Not midi clock.
DT manual

OUT PORT FUNCTIONALITY selects what type of signal the MIDI OUT port will send.
• MIDI makes it possible for the port to send out MIDI data.
• DIN 24 will make the port send DIN 24 sync pulses. No MIDI data is transferred over the port when this option is selected.
• DIN 48 will make the port send DIN 48 sync pulses. No MIDI data is transferred over the port when this option is selected.

THRU PORT FUNCTIONALITY selects what type of signal the MIDI THRU port will send. The settings are the same as for OUT PORT FUNCTIONALITY.

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#12

You def. can’t send transport out of Sync B for some reason if the DT is the master. Just doesn’t work. It can pass THROUGH transport from another device, just not it’s internal clock. It’s dumb.

#13

This is because with a typical midi set up, midi thru, simply passes along whatever info comes into the midi in port. This is how the DT and all of the elektron devices function. Most devices function this way.

A few manufacturers, like arturia and novation, have made adjustments to this scheme and have created combined midi out/thru ports with some software support.

Your easiest solution is probably going to be picking up a simple midi merge box.

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#14

Unfortunately, the MIDI Merge box doesn’t work since I need the Remote to control both the DT and DN. Assigning the MIDI values on the DT seem to have circumvented the issue, it’s just one of those silly things that required more of a workaround than should have been necessary.

#15

Get a midi router. You may find a 2nd hand that could cost just a little more than a merge/thru box. I did it this way (MOTU MTP AV USB).
It’s crazy this situation even with a 2 boxes setup. Sorry my friend

#16

I have one :slight_smile: Old Yamaha MJC8. Works like a charm for most things. If there’s one thing I do have in my studio, it’s utilities (routers, patchbays, USB hubs). Haha.

What I’ve got setup now is enough for me. I have volume and mute controls over everything, and delay and reverb send controls for all of the DN tracks. Anything else I can just do on the boxes. The volume controls were the most important.

Basically, I need the DT to control the DN transport, and the Remote to send MIDI CC to both devices. So it goes SL-DT-DN, whereas what I really want is

SL to DT
SL to DN
DT to DN

The Novation does have dual outputs and a THRU.

I guess I could do
DT0 to SLI
SLO1 to DTI
SLO2 to DNI

But then I need to find a way to get the clock to send thru the SL to the DN, and then I need to make sure I don’t run into any MIDI Loopback issues.

#17

hey there.
i´ve made a tutorial recently where i use a software called Tochdesigner as a “midi router” to receive and send all midi between the DT/DN and other devices;
i can do this while i have both devices in overbridge mode and transport controlled by ableton.
maybe you can solve your problem with this. have a look here: Digitakt / Digitone - MIDI advanced - w/ Touchdesigner

#18

That’s pretty dope, but it would require having my computer, which doesn’t happen when I’m on the couch or at a show. I’ll check it out.

#19

I recall that maybe it is possible to merge the midi in with the midi thru/out on the novation sl itself. It is in the global settings, i cannot try myself to avoid disconnecting everything from the router.
If you give it a try you may do like this:

set the digitone as master
midi out digitone --midi in novation (to get clock and program change)
merged midi thru/out on novation —midi in digitakt (to send transport and controls)
second port midi out novation—midi in digitone (to control the digitone with the keyboard)

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