My first (and only?) MPC Live III track - Just like my Elektrons more

This is the first (and only?) song I wrote using the Akai MPC Live III. Very happy with the direction this one took, slightly different vibe than the moodier and dark stuff I usually right. 100% MPC including mastering.

Sadly the MPC Live III was just not for me, so it got sold earlier this week. Very cool piece of gear, but the workflow just wasn’t my style. I really missed the more hands on performance aspects of the Digitakt and Octatrack, and I realized I don’t need a DAW in a hardware box when I’m perfectly happy (and quicker) using a DAW on the laptop.

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As someone who keeps revisiting the MPC platform, I’m curious how you explored the workflow in such a short timeframe /to its fullest potential?
Did you set up or personalize pads-to-window mappings, or take advantage of fun stuff like real-time chopping, or use any of the round-robin and layering options? Did you sounddesig/ experiment with advanced keygroups and their full modulation capabilities?

I have a substantial amount of MPC content on a HD that I’ll eventually need to load up (repairing my 4K is about one-third the cost of an L3). I can also see several reasons to keep a L3 unit if I were running my studio.
Between the clip/arranger matrix and the included synth plugins, it genuinely feels worthy.

Many of the synths actually sound quite characterful within the MPC environment: the Jura, for example, while it’s not as “accurate” analog as the Arturia’s Juno VST, it doesn’t really aim to be a purist analog emulation.
Instead, it’s bright, vibrant, and thrives on its own VST term.
IMO this VST’ish sound reflectes in your demo: the synths and strings sound excellent, yet ironicly I feel the samplings don’t benefit from this ‘‘clean’’ sound.

I’ve even thought about holding off on getting a TV. While the workflow is more tactile with a TV, you actually gain work-speed on the MPC due in how efficiently it handles tasks like: File management, chopping, and layering/ chord!16 levels, on the fly erase and note recoring recall ( thie highlight of the Abelton Move) are all there.

Everyone here seems to lose their minds over Elektron introducing eight sub-tracks, wherein the MPC offers up to 128 sub-tracks per track—each with 16 levels, pad layers w FX , round-robins, articulation via XY etc

You can even explode a track made up of many pads (sub-tracks) into individual tracks with a single command, and record mute states in real time directly into the arranger. Honestly, it’s pretty badass and smokes the Elektrons on these points.

That said, I do think it’s fairly evident in your track that the dynamics lack some of the dimensional detail I tend to hear in Elektron machines.

I’m not criticizing—just genuinely curious how the workflow became the primary reason for returning it? If I’m following you correctly, you’ve kept several “workstation-style” boxes. You seem to have held onto the Digitakt and Octatrack. Do you still have the 707 and the XY as well? If so, it sounds like you must have a pretty strong/dislike on “this just isn’t me” verdict on the L3.

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Nice stuff dude. Glad to see you sharing new music!

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For me the main reason for me to finally jump into exploring the latest MPCs (I haven’t used an MPC since way back when the MPC2000XL came out) was that it would let me break out of the pattern workflow of all my other groove boxes and focus more on linear song arranging. While I only had the MPC Live III for about a month, I probably have over 100 hours on it (not counting time spent working through the MPC Bible) and have about 7-8 songs anywhere from 25-75% completed on it.

While the linear sequencing aspect was nice, there were just so many areas of the Live III specifically that just felt weirdly organized to me. Pad edit, track edit, instrument edit, grid edit are all invoked with different buttons or button combos and spread out over the interface. Some of the edit menus could be triggered with dedicated buttons, but then they also duplicated those same buttons in the new step sequencer shortcuts instead of assigning them to something different. There’s a ton of places on the UI where there’s no indication that there are further menus and options if you scroll down, so you’re always trying to scroll a screen to make sure you’re seeing all the options. Relying on touch and hold to adjust some parameters is ok, but sometimes you also need to double tap on a parameter to adjust other parameters and it just felt slow and clunky to me.

While I love the Air instruments and effects that you have the option to buy (Jura I liked os much I bought, and Ether is now one of my favorite delays ever), the actual sample library for the style of music I write is just so so. I have a nicely curated sample library I’ve built up over time, but was really looking forward to getting some new sounds/samples to play with. All but one of the expansions is heavily hip hop or RnB focused, and the majority of the expansions you get with the MPC are more like half complete songs or template than raw material I’d feel comfortable using in my own music. Also, browsing for samples is just not that well done IMVHO since you have to rely on how they named the samples to search for anything. There’s no way to refine a search for hard kicks, or acoustic kicks, etc, it’s basically just one long list of kicks (or snares, etc) without any sort of deeper tagging or organization. It was just tedious to try and find anything in all the GB of samples they give you. Plus only 44.1 support, right when I’m trying to switch over to doing everything at 48k.

Also the way they set up the partitions on the included drive feels so weird to me. They put almost all the expansions on the first partition, but didn’t even leave enough space for the flagship MPCe expansion, which you have to download and install yourself (and they don’t even tell you this). It was just weird to ship a device that touts all this new expressive capability and then not even give you the content they created that shows this off.

Lastly, the Q-links in MPC 3,0 are just messy and inconsistent. Sometimes they ar represented in vertical rows of 4, sometimes horizontal rows of 4. Now they are releasing the XL with all 16 Q-links in a horizontal single row, while the Live III has 4 vertically, which makes finding the right Q-link a PITA at times. I was constantly banking and shift banking back and forth to try and control things without having to resort to the touchscreen. It’s just an inconsistency I was constantly dealing with.

None of these things on their own are deal breakers, but taken together it just didn’t feel like a cohesive workflow that pulled me in. I feel like Akai is straddling this world between the older way of doing things on the MPC prior to v3.0, and the new unified Ableton clips/arrange way of doing things and as a result TO ME it just felt messy and haphazard a lot of times.

I know I’m listing a lot of negatives, but I want to reiterate that overall I still am impressed with everything you can do with the newer MPCs. They do a lot, and there’s a lot they do very well. But for someone not already in that world and the Akai way of working anymore, my other tools (and not just Elektron stuff, yes I still have the 707 and OP-1F, Xy, etc) just feel more natural and easier to use while achieving the same results for the style of music I like to write. Having seen the new MPC XL and how that’s laid out I think a lot of my issues are addressed there and it might have been a better fit for me than the Live III. But I would need to be SURE about that before spending that much money and more importantly dedicating that much desk space to it before I was ready try again.

Hope that helps shed some light on the limitations I felt I running into, and why I felt that the workflow was just not for me. Happy to discuss some more if you have more questions though.

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This.

Getting a different device that has a different workflow involves learning the new workflow in order to evaluate it.

Otherwise, if someone is an Elektron user and intent on staying with that workflow, they should stay with Elektron. And vice versa. If someone has been using MPC, and is intent on the MPC workflow, don’t switch to Elektron expecting it to be a fit for that.

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Music sounds great. I know that exact feeling from the Akai Force. Instead of a strong hardware box it felt like a crippled laptop.

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I’ve been making music long enough to know how to learn a new product without putting any sort of bias into it. I most definitely never even considered trying to make the MPC act like an Elektron device or approach the MPC as if it was an Elektron device. My comment was that even after learning the MPC workflow, I realized I had other workflows at my disposal that allowed me to achieve the results I wanted in a more fluid way. I’m sure most MPC users would agree that the MPC has a very unique workflow, and for me it just wasn’t something that totally resonated.

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funny enough i got a modern MPC and was loving it so much that when I finally got around to loading the plugins on my computer and trying to sequence/play them like the MPC i fell in love with ITB workflow and realized everything can be recreated with much higher sound quality and more freedom on a computer.

i do miss the sample chopping workflow, but that’s about it. I don’t miss the tribalism :slight_smile:

prob will get a serato slab at some point and i bet that will fill that void completely inside the DAW

edit*
just adding that when you see people give their critique about a device, do not take it personally or to heart because it’s something that works for you or has brought you success where ever it may be.

People get way too defensive and start acting like their the mayor of akai when you have any issues. noticed this in the tr1000 thread as well, god forbid you mention anything about midi timing on either of these units lol.

i know i have valued tarekith’s posts and reviews over the years (it’s been over 10 wow lol) as early back as the original OP-1 when it was still being sold for 799$ from TE. he has provided countless insights and personal reviews into several grooveboxes and it’s always been quite valuable.

it was a simpler time back then, no synth influencers getting paid with free product selling you 0 interest loans on gears from zzounds and other click bait BS. anyways /rant done lol

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Cool track and thanks for the insights about device. I’m also drawn to possibility of linear sequencing and combining it with pattern/clip workflow (and MPCe pads, especially after latest update), but your thoughts kind of confirmed to me what I’m seeing in various reviews. While I understand what’s going on in OS 3 much better than previous versions, I’ve noticed many of the issues you mentioned. Also, after this year’s jamuary I found out that pattern workflow in combination with hardware oriented for live performance like Elektrons or MC-707 isn’t that bad, at least for music styles that I do. And yes, for producing static/linear songs nothing can really match a real DAW.

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Well, actually I noticed in your more recent comment after I responded to the other poster, that many of your complaints are about difficulty learning the MPC workflow, where you had not yet committed the workflow to muscle memory. To really knowing the machine well.

Once you have developed a workflow with it, you’ll figure out which one of those buttons works best for you.

Once you learn the MPC, then you won’t have to scroll down

Yes. It will until you learn it well enough to develop muscle memory for the double taps.

Yes. Does seem a little odd. But once you set up your MPC, you never have to think about it again. So not really a workflow concern.

Yes. But if you learn the MPC, you’ll get used to that.

Well I think now that if you see my responses, you’ll see that a lot of what you see as negatives are things that would become second nature with extended use. Definitely, it’s taking a little more time to learn.

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My man just wanted to post his music. Let him be the 10th dentist. Not every dentist has to like MPC flavored toothpaste.

I’m not discrediting what anyone has said, just calling attention to the nature of the post rather than the specific opinions about the gear used.

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Isn’t that true for any workflow? If someone commits to working with anything and uses it regularly, it’s going to become the norm.

Tarektih can speak for himself, I know, but I don’t understand sticking with knowing that something doesn’t work the way you want it to, especially when they have options.

I’ve gotten that way on more than a few things, where I just don’t want to waste time learning what requires me to adjust.

Far less complicated, but as Tarekith uses OP-1F, I hope he can understand that I fucking hate the OP-1/F workflow. I’ve come to appreciate that others love it for themselves. I’m happy knowing I don’t want to work that way.

There’s also the SP40. I don’t like that workflow but love what others do with it.

It’s not even gear bashing when you know you’re better off doing something different.

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No. This is not the same thing. These are largely instances where you just have to learn the firmware and interface. The OP is expressing confusion because he hasn’t actually learned it yet. Look at the actual examples I replied to.

Now if he wanted to say that there’s some difficulty in learning the firmware and interface, that would be accurate.

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@Tarekith made it pretty clear his issues with the machine, as well as stating the positives of it. Your tone is incredibly patronising, especially to someone like @Tarekith who has contributed greatly to this community for many years.

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Once mastered and once all the menus are known and the shortcuts personalized, it actually becomes a simple system—but that doesn’t mean it’s well designed.

Take for example, the menu-driven way of setting up macros, or compare how parameter locks are handled versus how it’s done instantly on Elektrons. You can just hold a step and make any edits, “p-lock” anything on screen, including volumes, rolls, and fills via 8 encoders—versus hopping through menus and setting up knobs before you do the same on the MPC.

Or how you can; microshift one or multiple steps, rotate the whole lane, or switch timing divisions on the Elektrons without effort. The difference is a “feast in Valhalla vs a vegan yogurt pot .”

Now, the Elektrons are designed for this, so it’s the most constrained example.
But the point is: regardless of knowing how everything works, even if you are fast at it, its doesn’t mean that the design is clever.

IMO, whoever is running product management at Akai is either restricted by upper management, bound by code restrictions, or constrained by the CEO’s boundaries and target market price as I personally think the whole design is a bit of a mess and I refuse to belive a team on this level lacks the expected abilities.

Not just from GUI workflow/menu design, but throughout the tactile interface.

In contrast, look at the SP16 UI: it’s clear and simple, and the balance between the XOX grid & Pads and parameter locking is harmonious and very effective.

Furthermore; The Qlinks are not customized for the L3 but instead share the same code as the X & XL, so things like tempo are blindly mapped to the first row of encoders on the main screen. How often do you need temp on an encoder and how often have users accidentally changed tempo of a sequence without intending to?

I don’t have one, so I don’t know if it’s just a matter of getting used to, but I’m pointing out things that blur the workflow in my opinion.

I sincerely hope you guys (Akai) at least create a script to just “learn,” grab anything on screen, and p-lock it without having to bounce around setup menus. I could write a long report here, but this is not my responsibility.

In contrast,

if you look at the Elektron Tonverk and how it’s UI is designed, it’s a very hands-on, “everything is within reach” , and each menu is instantly accessible via 8 encoders. Is it perfect? Considering the surface, size/format, and cost-to-target-price ratio, you can’t really fault it.

If I were to nitpick, I would have advised switching the ‘‘Transport buttons’’ and ‘‘Track Pattern Mute buttons’’ since transport controls and their secondary functions are used way more frequently and having them closer to your left hand would create a more efficient workflow than having to reach for them in the middle. But overall, it’s just an amazing design—very well crafted.

By contrast, the UI on the L3 ‘‘is very busy’’ and even the XL, if you ask me seems clearly catered more to marketing vs practicality.
I say this because if you’ve ever done 8-hour+ studio sessions for 1,000 days on a central studio hub, you’ll know that “flying elbows” are not a workflow asset.
Likewise (on the XL) things like the channel section on the left are too far away for “frequent access,” not to mention the LCD.
And who needs a stem button on the front panel? (Yeah, marketing won that meeting.) It would have been much better to go with an 8x2 pad configuration versus 4x4. I know 4x4 pads are iconic for MPCs, but you are crafting an instrument and by logic practicality should triumph in UI design choices.

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I get all your complaints, I feel like it is ok if it is not for you, they are valid critiques. For me, someone comfortable with both, I truly feel like you really need to be ok with using a touch screen to get the most out of it. I don’t understand why some try to never use it… if you don’t like touch screens just use a different product. It is easy to just touch anything on the screen and I usually am using the main encoder to adjust and if I see a gold box around it then I know I can use the q-links and switch to them for the four parameters… I never feel like I have to use the q-links or find a button so I don’t touch the screen… that sounds horrible and a huge time waste.
I respect your opinion, however I think it takes much longer than a month to get really comfortable, no matter how many hours. It takes a long time and you just fly… to reach their own though.

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Sometimes when it comes to creativity, things arent binary, it’s what feels right despite them being more advanced and maybe better ways of doing them nowadays.

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The Mpc is still a bit idiosyncratic in some areas but to have so much functionality and have speakers and mic and battery powered I can live with the quirks. It’s soo much better than Mpc 2 so hopefully it continues to get updated and improve workflow. I still love the elektron gear but you end up buying 15k worth of gear just to be able to do everything you need. Mpc live does it all in one place. You Can make a complete track on it. The qlinks layout isn’t the best would prefer was under screen and whole setup was more like toriaz sp16. And step sequencer is not close to elektron but hopefully it will improve

I’ve got a ways to go to be fluent on everything on Mpc but I’ve got so much faster at navigating it now. It is easy to forget the quick way to do things if have a break from it I must admit because it’s not what I would call intuitive but I do believe it can be learned so can work fast get ideas down quick.

It’s a keeper for me until live 4 comes out I reckon

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lol sooooo untrue, man the cope in this thread is insane

tarekith likes his elektrons better. so do many others, surprise surprise on an Elektron forum

where did you get this “15,000” number from

currently you can buy a
rytm mk1
a4 mk1
ot mk1
digitone mk1
digitakt mk1

and it would cost you less than an mpc XL lol

:rofl:

lately all this white knighting for gear you own is getting tiring on this forum

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Mate I’m talking Australian dollars and if you want the full elektron set up that’s roughly what it cost. I wasn’t talking about second hand mk1s.

I was more talking about the need to have multiple boxes I ended up collecting them like Pokémon lol
And was like man i could buy a nice car for what I spent

Not hating on elektron, I just like Mpc because it’s an all in one that’s portable with awesome speakers

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