MPC Live & MPC X


#5238

Got it working now.thank you


#5239

Because Akai don’t understand technology as they claim they do :joy: All jokes aside, SSDs have a finite number of write operations before seeing their performances decrease, so writing all samples to disk when not needed is a bad move, but as usual, one that will only impact users in the mid to long run, so not their problem I guess.


#5240

Some info, with regards to the Samsung 860 EVO SSD.

"The 860 Evo addresses that issue by offering 150TB TBW on the smallest 250GB drives, and then doubling that number at each subsequent size. At 1TB the TBW is an impressive 600TB, and the 4TB mechanism has an incredible 2,400TB or 2.4 Petabytes TBW.
Yes, we’ve got to the P-word. So long terabyte, hello petabyte!

To put that in perspective; if you wrote the entire contents of a 50GB Blu-ray to the 4TB 860 Evo every single day it would take 131 years to hit the predicted failure point of the 4TB unit.
This isn’t a claim we can practically test given deadlines, but it would strongly suggest that even with the smaller mechanisms the Samsung 860 Evo is highly unlikely to fail within the typical lifespan of a modern computer.

The most popular size is likely to be the 860 Evo 500GB, and with that you get 300TB TBW, or the equivalent of writing a 50GB Blu-ray each day for roughly 16 years, and that is plenty unless you’re editing 4K video for a living. Those that have that sort of write level should probably go for the larger models where even their excessive use seems well within the longevity of their new design"


#5241

Sure, if you’re using mostly MIDI programs, and only loading a few factory kits with 16 pads and 16 samples per kit, you wouldn’t likely be able to see the overwriting process happening, as it would only take a fraction of a second. However, the drum program in the project I’m talking about contains 512 samples (128 pads with 4 velocity layers per pad), and it takes a solid 30 seconds to write to disk. It absolutely collects and overwrites every single sample, every single time. Honestly, it’s painful to watch.

That said, I’m not really concerned about the life of the drive per se — it’s a 250-gig EVO with more than enough capacity for overwriting data; hell, it’ll probably outlast the MPC itself — but, with the files being resaved each time, the MPC is effectively making a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy… File corruption is bound to happen with a system like that. Evidently!

What should be happening is, the MPC should only be saving that which has been changed since the last save; but it doesn’t seem to remember that. WTF?

Still no word from Akai, of course; and I’m fully expecting the “have you tried turning it on” response from some kid reading from the customer service playbook. Anyway, thanks for the responses, peeps! I appreciate the conversation regardless.

Cheers!

P.S. As it stands, I’m stubbornly finishing the project using the corrupt samples; after which, when there are no more saves to be done, I will purge the sample pool, once again, reload the clean samples, and reassign them to their respective pads. A pain in the ass, to be sure, but it’s the only workaround I can think of. It does seem to fix the issue at least, if temporarily. I’m assuming (or hoping rather) that I won’t see any further degradation, going forward, if all I’m doing is loading the project to play (fingers crossed). For the record though, now that I know what I’m listening for, the samples do in fact get noticeably noisier with every save, so something is definitely going wrong there (sigh).


#5242

I’ve had success with Akai when calling Technical Support direct. In contrast all my (clear & concise) emailed issues have been answered by a moron.

If you’re based in the UK try calling Technical Support on 01252 896040


#5243

I’m in Canada, but thanks anyway. Ya, I’ll give them another week to “reply within 72 hours”, after which I’ll be placing a direct phone call. Either way, I will not be ignored. :wink:

Cheers!


#5244

just to say that the MPC doesn’t OVERWRITE your samples, it just duplicates them in your project’s dedicated project folder. What file format are those drum samples in?


#5245

Yes, I realize that. However, it is overwriting them within the project folder. It should only have to collect and save “duplicates” of the samples once, when the project is first saved; but instead, it collects and resaves ALL the samples every time the project is saved, systematically overwriting each sample as it goes, even if nothing in the project’s sample pool has been changed. Again, unless samples have been added or otherwise deleted from the project, there should be nothing to resave, except parameter changes and sequencer data… Period.

The same is true of saving a drum program: i.e. the MPC initially collects and saves all the samples associated with the program, and stores them, in redundancy, in the program folder along with the program data. But, should you make any changes to that program, however small, and wish to save those changes, the MPC proceeds to overwrite ALL the samples in the program folder, even if the only thing you changed was, say, mixer levels or what have you. Hell, it even tells you that it’s going to “overwrite” them in the prompt that pops up.

As for the file format of the samples in question; they were all sampled directly into the MPC itself, so whatever the MPC does with files, that’s what format they are. The only reason I even have uncorrupted samples to replace the corrupt ones with, is because I saved all the samples to a separate folder, independent of the program and project folders, as I was sampling them. I’m thankful for that foresight now, let me tell you what!

Cheers!


#5246

I suggest sending a PM to Dan from Akai on GS. Seems like he genuinely wants to help people with issues regarding MPC. His nick is xparis001 IIRC

But again, I am thinking something is different in your case. Every time I do a first save of any project, saving process takes a while. every subsequent resave takes but a blink of an eye (via the disk icon). So for some reason, the sample content is not resaved in my projects. Maybe the fact that you sampled your audio directly with the MPC affects the outcome somehow?


#5247

I don’t think the samples necessarily get repeatedly written…? The system just keeps all samples belonging to a project together in one place.

I actually like this, since it means transferring and backing up a project for stage work, is simple and straight-forward.


#5248

Ah, I see, my info was a bit dated then, good to know and thanks for the info :+1:


#5249

agreed, I love that feature myself. I have hard disks full of music project files from the past 20 years that have forever lost their samples. It brings comfort knowing that all my MPC 2 project files will never have that happen to them… assuming that data will not get corrupted of course!


#5250

lol, alright. Thank you for elaborating your issue, now it’s clearer what you’re struggling with and it sounds like something’s wrong with your device…I hope you’ll work it out.

:wink:


#5251

Gentlemen, please…

The samples are absolutely being repeatedly overwritten. There’s no question about that. I’ve been very thorough about sussing this out thus far. And yes, Purusha, as you and tsutek have observed, the reason why Akai have chosen to save the samples this way (in redundancy, within each project) is so they can’t get lost if the original files are moved, renamed, or accidentally deleted; and so the process of backing-up a project and taking it with you is simple and concise. It also has to be this way because the MPC can’t read from disk.

However, it is a lazy implementation: i.e. overwriting everything, every time, means you don’t need a more complicate file management system that remembers specifically what has been changed since the last save.

Cheers!


#5252

Don’t get me wrong, man, I observe this behaviour on my MPC as well: i.e. if I start a new project, when I first save it, it takes the time (several seconds at least) to collect all the samples from the sample pool and save them to the project folder, as expected. And, like you, if I then continue to work on that project, if I save it again (via the disk icon), it’s pretty much instantaneous. However, if I then shutdown the MPC, when I come back the next day (or whenever), reload that project, and make further changes… If I then try to save those changes, the MPC proceeds to collect ALL the samples again, as if it had never seen them before, and overwrite those files in the project folder. Which, evidently, is causing some degradation over time.

Now, given the disparity that almost certainly exists between our various workflows, I can understand how some of you (even most of you) may not have noticed this behaviour before, or otherwise suffered the ill effects thereof; but I seriously doubt that my MPC is the only one that does this, and therefore is somehow broken.

Anyway, I will continue to try to contact Akai “support”, and I will ask someone (hopefully not some robot customer service drone) what the hell is going on here. But I’m telling y’all, I’m not crazy. :wink:

Cheers!


#5253

I can confirm you’re not the only one, happened to me on 5 different projects of mine with the same symptoms.


#5254

That does make sense. …but the current behaviour doesn’t bother me overly-much, for my work-flow. I can see how others might be looking at a different scenario though.

If the system weren’t to re-save, I’d like to see a data validation / comparison done on the existing files at least. Even if that were a manual process.


#5255

Well, it wouldn’t bother me either, if it weren’t corrupting my samples. :wink:

Cheers!


#5256

Im sure Akai will consider this a critical issue. Now we just need to figure out how the corruption manifests, and send a detailed report to Dan.

I will keep a lookout next time if I notice this resaving of files happening between boots on my MPC live & force. If this issue is reproducible and affect all hardware, it is also probable that also the force is affected by this, as the MPCs and the force undoubtedly share quite alot of code.

One more thing - have you noticed the same issues happening, regardless of storage media used? Just remembered that I haven’t installed an SSD to my force yet… need to test with an ext thumb drive.


#5257

Just tested this, booted up my live, opened a project with a bunch of samples, changed BPM, hit the disk icon. Saving was instantaneous.

I am unable to reproduce the long resaving time condition… ideas?