Movie recommendations

I’m sorry, but if you read it as a kid, I don’t think you understood the book. Go back and read them again as an adult. They don’t beat you over the head with anti-colonialist angle, but it’s definitely there. The subtle hint that Paul is a bad guy is when he consciously sets into motion events where his followers kill billions of people across the galaxy.

It helps to understand the story when you realize that Paul and House Atreides are not the protagonist. The protagonist of the series is Arrakis itself

I did not miss those things—they are obvious plot points and Dune in general is not subtle about anything. Herbert is a ham-fisted writer. My point is that these things are superficial. As I explained, “The novels follow the Atreideses, the story is from their POV, the books are totally thoroughly and sincerely into how smart and cool they are and what amazing powers they have, etc etc. Herbert at some point realized there were obvious problems with such a project, and tried to figure a way out for himself and his readers, but its entirely clear who the books think is actually interesting, deserving of a story, etc.”

The point is that the book plots out all these disasters, but ultimately, is completely enraptured by its protagonists (Paul, Leto II), just like every teenager who reads the books. They’re really smart and cool and have special powers! The fact that the novels are so interested in the psychological inner worlds of these characters tells you where its affections lie. Why isn’t Dune a story told from the Fremen point of view? It totally could have been? Well because it implicitly believes the Fremen, the colonial subjects, the undifferentiated savage hoards are boring. That’s it. It has the same bias as basically all the other contact narratives in Western lit.

Oh brother lol. “New York is so significant that it’s really a character itself :brain:

ha, I only just realised “I haven’t seen part 2”
that explains a lot of why we disagree on what the movie is trying to say. We were talking about differnt movies.

I should learn to read.

You didn’t finish half the series, so you’re not really qualified to talk about what the scope of the entire series is about. And I hate to break it to you, but sometimes in books, sometimes the main character is not a good person. That is a technique typically used by authors to urge the reader to reconsider their point of view and preconceived notions.

The books are pretty upfront about the problems with its characters. Are they interesting? Sure! But if you think that Paul and the Bene Gesserit are “good”, I suggest you look inward.

2 Likes

spoiler ahead Haven’t read the book all the way, but the idea that an adult would come away from parts 1 and 2 thinking that Paul is “really smart and cool and has super powers” is very funny. The movies are explicitly showing that his messianic role is completely manufactured in order to control the fremen and obtain their consent to be subjugated. It’s extremely bleak and far from the shallow “Paul is the special boy and look how great he is” narrative you just described.

1 Like

Good point, I added a spoiler warning

1 Like

Really? Anti-heroes exist? No way!

An anti-hero is a reorientation, a volta of a conventional point of view/subjectivity. When a protagonist represents the long-running conventional (in this case more than conventional—ubiquitous) point of view or subjectivity for a particular kind of story, he/she is no anti-hero. You have a fully conventional hero consistent with the way the relevant kind of story has been told, in this case, for centuries, who does bad things, but is ultimately the only subjectivity that really matters.

Look, take Lolita. Humbert Humbert, classic anti hero. Why? Well because we aren’t normally asked to identify with pederasts. But Dune asks us to identify with…a dynasty of colonizers. Welp, that is the overwhelmingly dominant point of view of all narratives of contact, from which Dune (unwittingly) draws and of which it is a part. There’s no reorientation, just same old same old I’m afraid.

Believe it or not you can also have fairly conservative works of art that want to look more socially acceptable than they actually are.

Even that is not a new angle, harkening back to “there are no anti-war movies about war” discourse of the pre-internet age, or Vonnegut wanting Slaughterhouse Five to not be coopted by people who find shitty things cool.

People “missing the point” is inherent to creation, and death of the artist is used just as often to give a better lens through media as it is for people to “twist” any messages.

Hopefully I’m not coming off like I feel you’re wrong, or even irrelevant here. It’s an interesting topic that art creates its own space for others to engage with, to impose their aesthetics and ideology on.

I obviously don’t think there’s one answer or need to feel comfortable with black and white thinking about what it has to mean.

1 Like

I watched only part 1.
Started to read the forum with the intention to watch part 2, ended with the intention to read the books :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like

spoilers Just gonna throw this out there, I think you are absolutely in the minority on this interpretation of this story. All of the Bene Gesserit scheming to create a messiah figure by seeding a self fulfilling prophecy to the fremen was not just made up for the movie, it’s explicitly part of dune lore. If the book is actually as fawning as you say it is, then the movie absolutely improved this in the adaptation process.

2 Likes

I am aware of what the popular interpretations of Dune are on the internet. No surprise there. I am also in the minority for thinking Dune Messiah is the best of the first four novels (almost no one nominates the last two books as best fyi, but I’ll refrain from including those since I stopped when I got bored with God Emperor).

Look as I’ve said numerous times here, even if you take the position that Paul is an anti-hero and the theme of Dune is to beware charismatic leaders because they turn into dictators, you are not doing anything to flatter the novel. Not only is that a theme fit for children, it is completely reactionary given the context, as explained above.

If you like this stuff as an adult, that’s fine. Enjoy yourself. You don’t need to have a good case that it is politically righteous. I loved the books as a kid, but my feelings changed as I got older.

The last movie I saw in the theater was Gravity. Then i stopped watching most recent stuff and went back in time. Today I saw Dune Part Two. I think i am good forever now. I feel like I can’t stand slow motion scenes, unncessarily long run times, drone sounds, impact FX anymore.

2 Likes

question for all of you who watched Dune2, I have the option to see it in either regular 2D, ScreenX or 4DX, anyone can recommend one over the other? never been at ScreenX or 4DX, and I’m not sure if it’s any better then the regular one.

Just go for regular 2D, if they have some special soundsystem option, go for that one.
Everything else is a nice gimmick at best. Never really thought these ScreenX or 4DX – or even just 3D – was worth the extra bucks.

2 Likes

yeah I’ve looked into the 4DX specs and it seems that it’s only gimmicky things like chair moves and fog and stuff, no mention of the sound system, and the screenx I think might be too distracting with 270 degrees…
will go with the regular.

1 Like

Have fun with DUNC 2! If you liked the first one, you’re most likely gonna enjoy this one too.

2 Likes

thanks, I really liked the first one, can’t say it’s the best sci fi movie I’ve seen but in comparison to what’s out there it sure is awesome, looking forward for part 2, bought ticket for today.

1 Like

Yeah great film

I saw the first one in 4DX and it was one of the most awesome movie going experiences I’ve been to! Not so much for The Batman where it physically hurt to watch the film (quality of the movie aside!), but Dune was so engrossing because the pace of the film and the shots isn’t really that hectic, so it never became a distraction for me.
There’s no fog though, not that I’ve ever seen. Water shoots out during rainy scenes but you can turn that off if you don’t want to get your eyeglasses wet. Or snacks.
Really looking forward to seeing part 2, still haven’t had the time to yet.

1 Like

{makes note never to go to a 4DX showing}

2 Likes