I’m trying not to splurge drastically on upgrading monitors rite now, but I do want to upgrade soon.
current monitors: JBL 305 mk2 5”
every time I get the urge to upgrade I’m always confused as to which route to take when upgrading and eventually leads me to postponing my purchase.
I want to try and save money but also get something worth an upgrade.
so my conflict is, should I buy budget friendly 7-8” monitors,
or
spend significantly more and get a higher tier brand, 3” w/ a 6-7” sub??
looking for any insight on this dilemma.
I make bass heavy music and my 5’s aren’t currently cutting it.
I do have treatment waiting to put up, and I know that will help some but I doubt it will make enough of an impact to warrant not upgrading.
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my purchase candidates:
neumann KH 120A =1400$
(not sure about these neumanns cuz they are a really old model, I think 7 years at least and only a 5.25” but not sure if higher tier monitors with 5” woofers still bump)
genelec 8010 lse+ sub package =1500$
(a bit out of my price range but if the extra cost justifies sound improvement I can significantly notice I could save up a bit longer maybe)
then there’s also an option to just get a matching JBL sub-woofer for 400$
but then that leads to another issue.
would it be best to have a 5” and sub JBL or a pair of 8” woofer monitors like the pre-sonus.
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if the sound improvement is not that noticeable I don’t mind going the budget friendly route but then again if I find the sound quality a bit lacking in the budget tier, I’ll be at a cycle again upgrading.
any advice/insight would be appreciated.
monitor suggestions?
Neumann KH310s work very well in small rooms (with a bit of acoustic treatment) due to their sealed design, very well controlled drivers, eq for positioning near walls and ruler flat frequency response.
Forget the rest.
Ive done the sub thing. Fun, but crap for mixing unless you’re planning on building a full on studio from the ground up.
Personally, I like listening with a sub, but if I’m trying to nail down a good range for a track, I prefer 7-8” with no sub and a good pair of headphones. Subjective of course, but a data point for you
In my semi-treated small 7m2 home studio I switched from 6.75" Behringer B2030A to 5" Focal´s Shape…could not be happier.
There is no point in having a 8" sub in a small room, the only thing you are going to get is a messy bass ball with lots of phashing issues…
a 34Hz wave length measures 10m, I do not think that fits in many home studios; you need at least half wave length dimension for that to sound ok…a 5x5m studio could fit thouse 34hz…not very well though…
The Focal´s do not have a bass port, 2 passive woffers on the sides…I also use sonarworks reference 4 and toguether with the room treatment (few panels and corner bass traps),I love how they sound, very precisse with lots of details. For extra bass info I just use my DT880 pro HP
Here you can see most monitors are more or less flat, is the room characteristics what changes that
I also make bass heavy music intended for dance floors. I tried Adam 7s, but find my current setup relates way better to what it actually sounds like when I play my tracks out.
Try KRK VXT8s and their 10”sub.
For me, 5”s and a 10” sub has been perfect in small rooms.
I don’t have to crank it, and I set the sub’s crossover at the bottom of the 5”s low end reproduction.
The sub only lets me feel the bass, the 5”s (8030a) let me hear it.
Genelec 8010A + 7040A Sub user here.
My room is 15 x 9 x 10 feet and I think it sounds very good in here. I usually have a decibel meter handy and keep my level below/at 80dB at all times.
I’ve had a lot of different monitors including Yamaha HS7’s, Adam A7’s, Alesis Passives etc and this is by far my favorite setup. The combo Genelecs (which are made for each other purposefully) sound like one cohesive frequency spectrum. I can’t tell where the 8010’s stop and the 7040’s take over save for the fact that I know their specs. The sub doesn’t sound like a sub, more like an extension of the 8010’s (you don’t notice it).
I added bass traps in the front corners of the room so far and I could honestly get away with just those but I’ll add more treatment mostly due to high/mid reflections I can hear.
I’m going to be RTA mic/mixing the room soon and I’ll post up some data if I have any before you make your decision.
I’m biased too though, I just really like Genelecs I guess. I don’t really think about new speakers anymore for the first time ever.
I think there is alot of misconception about speaker size, bassport front/rear and such and small rooms. Bass is omnidirectional and will spread in all directions. Placing speakers against a wall will give a 6db boost in the bass region. Against back and side wall it will give 12db. So if you can adjust for this it isnt a big problem.
I love my 8330 with 7350 sub. I have a smooth response from about 22 hz and up. And you dont hear the sub as a separate unit. I think alot of people always tune their sub too high as they think they should hear it. That brings me back to my youth when i had an Mk2 Golf with 2 12" woofers in the trunk!
I was thinking of getting a 8" sub for listening to music, to feel that bass like you say. But for making music I think is better without it, at least in my small studio setup.
Besides living in flat …I am pretty sure my neighbours would love it…
Yea, I have a house, not an apartment.
Definitely helps with the doof doof.
That said, I could have gotten by with a smaller sub, but the 10" was a good deal at the time, now 14 years ago. It’s providing 57hz and below only. It’s a KRK and it is the only KRK product I do not hate.
I’ve even tried a very cheap Amazon Rockville 10" sub for this purpose and was able to make it work thanks to a properly treated room. Was happy to mix on it.
Mastering is another story though.
The point is, I think that the better your room is treated, and the lower your main monitors go, the less impactful subwoofer selection is. It’s still important, but it becomes more of a game of inches when other factors are taken care of.
some great responses, appreciated.
taking into account everything you guys mentioned.
was going to take some pictures of my studio space and try to draw up a diagram of my layout but got side tracked.
studio area dimensions**
-right wall is 8’ then cuts off
-back of the wall is 8’6”
-left wall extends way further than the right wall going into another room.
So treatment wise I’m going to try to stop the treatment at 8’ to match the right wall.
-floor to ceiling is 8’2”
these are all rough measurements. couldn’t get a precise reading with the tape measurer I had available. so give or take a couple inches.
treatment**
I have two ultimate acoustics 24” hexagons and also eight I think of the same but 12”.
I plan on adding another pair of 24” and maybe 8 more 12”.
haven’t put any up yet as I’m trying to renovate this area.
So now I’m just here, trying to figure out what monitor set-up would be best before I add my treatment.
I also want to get some bass traps but it’s starting to add up quick so I might have to hold off on those for awhile.
but I do get a lot of resonance in my studio area.
also plan on getting some diffusers to place against the back above where my monitor is.
so yeah that’s mostly what I’m dealing with rite now.
I’m a bit tired but tomorrow I should be able to maybe add some pictures if necessary and go over some of the advice better to determine which setup would be a better match for the dimensions of this area.
I would say that there is definitely a difference in audio quality, if we compare a budget pair of speakers for $300 to a pair of the middle or upper price ranges.
BUT … can you make use of it … ? How is your room treatment? How is your other equipment?
It may sound too simple, but concerning audio there is a simple truth … the weakest part of the audio chain defines the overall performance.
It doesn’t make sense to:
get expensive speakers and use them in a too small or untreated room.
get expensive speakers and combine them with mediocre or cheap audio equipment
To select the right speakers for our studio takes some research and time to make a good decision.
As for monitor/sub … depends on the use case. If you need a very strong and deep bass for your particular mixes (20Hz-40Hz), a sub-woofer may be a good idea in any case. But some of the better 8" can deliver strong bass for the most genres as well.
But there is an advantage to have several speaker membranes for the different frequency bands, because the speakers can be optimized accordingly.
Example: If we try to transmitt a strong deep bass on the same membrane as much higher frequencies, the bold movements of the membrane, which are needed to deliver the bass sound, are reducing the transmission quality of the much higher frequencies.
This said, I suppose that having a 8" speaker (which often has a second smaller speaker for the high frequency range only) and pumping all the energy of a low heavy bass through that one membrane, will interfere with the other frequencies and reduce the overall sound quality.
Genelec 8040B user here in non treated 3x4 metre room. Absolute love these, bass extension is very tight, tuneful and extended. mids and highs are clear.
But I guess bass info gets quite messy, the day you treat your room you will hear the difference, .
Even when analyzing the room with mic/software combo like sonarworks it helps a lot if get rid of most of those unwanted reflections first, specially with mids and highs. Bass reflections (under 100Hz) though are difficult to get rid off…very difficult
Why not just get the JBL LSR310S 10" Powered Studio Subwoofer that goes with the 305s you already have? (You did say it was another issue, but figured, why not ask anyway…)
well as been previously discussed, bringing to my attention-room dimensions…a 10sub might be overkill w/ my layout.
I mean just think, most of us are around 6 foot and my dimensions are barely 2 feet extra.
from left - right wall.
also these jbl 5" aren’t the best, even for budget friendly (just got this at the time to hold me off)
so I would be adding probably too much bass with a 10sub using it with poor quality 5" as apposed to maybe getting better audio quality like the Adam t7’s with its 7"woofer which might fit my layout better.
cheap audio quality jbl 5" w/ 10sub
or
better audio quality w/ 7’ monitors
or
go higher end and get a 5" Neumann, genelec, Adam, or focal
sorry I phrased that wrong from what I was really trying to say.
I know theres going to be a difference of course, but when I meant noticeable I meant also relevant to price difference.
so for instances:
is going from a 300$ set --to-- a 700$ set going to be 400$ noticeable like, “oh crap this sounds freaking awesome!”
or
is it going to be like, “eh they sound good enough” -is this “good enough” worth a 400$ price difference.
I guess I just want to make sure im getting the price difference worth in quality, cuz if its not that noticeable as in, only maybe 150$ worth of difference even tho the price is 400$ more, I rather stay budget friendly.
I have two-24" hexagon ultimate acoustics and 8-12" of the same kind but plan on double the total amount which none has been applied yet.
im currently trying to run everything through my UA Apollo twin mk2.
plans on also getting a power outlet/conditioner just to try to keep the interference & ground noise in check.
It is possible the room won’t make better speakers sound any better. I have a pair of LSR 305s and other than low bass they are fab driven at the professional level from my mixer - in the much larger room I have. They were underwhelming from just my interface tho.
