A post was merged into an existing topic: Max/MSP 8 released by Cycling '74
The UI IMHO sucks big time. Loads of Key Combos you must remember and sampling is much more complicated than it is on Digitakt.
No. It doesn’t suck and it is underrated.
TRUTH 
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Monomachine is an infinite well of inspiration and amazing sounds, especially if you’re into glitchy/noisey stuff. Never a bad choice.
Eurorack is fun, but very expensive, especially if you are interested in using it more as a music composing/generating environment rather than just as a complex mono synth type thing. You always wind up feeling like your idea could have been better with just a few more modules, but that few more just leads to another few more. If I were to start over, a hybrid approach seems way better. Use Max, Reaktor or VCV to generate your sequences and CVs with a cv converter, and have a smaller, more focused sound generating or processing setup in hardware.
These days I’m way more interested in Reaktor than I am in my eurorack. The only limit to my ideas is the CPU. And the ability to save and iterate patches takes it closer to a real composition environment than I was ever able to achieve in euroland. IMO it’s a tad more approachable than Max. It’s the ultimate audio Swiss Army knife, if you are willing to put in the time to learn it and to realize your ideas. Don’t want to overload the thread with tracks, but Reaktor can generate this in realtime with no edits or post processing outside of minimal limiting/eq. In fact everything on the page is from the same patch
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Where do you start with reaktor? I always found max easier to navigate but these tracks sound great. Right up my street.
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Thanks! Reaktor Primary, and Blocks to a greater extent, work pretty much like a modular synth. Create oscillator object, filter object, patch things together and create controls, etc., profit. Blocks is a great place to learn the fundamentals of how to patch things together, then when you are ready move into Primary. Here is where you can start building really unique and personal tools for yourself. The user library is full of great stuff and trying to reverse engineer bits or even steal chunks from other ensembles and hack for your own purposes is another great way to learn.
Core is a bit more complex and low level, but not too bad. 99% of my patch is created just in Primary.
There are also some amazing tutorials out there, especially anything from Salamanderanagram.
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This is all from him.
Reaktor blocks are awesome.
There are many great videos about it on youtube, e.g. by Kadenze
Don’t go the modular route when you want make music. It’s a trap. And a very expensive one. You can definitely learn some stuff about synthesis. But there are far better music-instruments that you can use to compose tracks. It’s a lot bling bling bing and bong mostly. Hell even the patching goes in my nerves after a while. It’s also a relevation to go back to a simple groovebox after euroracking. They look suddenly super super powerful and don’t get me starting with tuning, mixing, polyphony, power-problems, the need of endless tools to get simple task going like assigning an LFO for modulations purposes…
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I make music with a modular and find it extremely quick and easy. Tuning is just a case of having ears and turning a knob.
Make atonal music: problem solved 
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how could I forgot this 
Don’t buy a modular to learn. You are dealing with serious money so best to know a thing or two before entering. I see it time and time again with Euro people. They buy all the modules with flashy lights without a clue about what an individual module does, let alone an entire system.
DISCLAIMER : this get´s a bit long and is the longest post i ever wrote, because this journey in the last years took a lot of heartblood from me, so I love to share my perspective of it. Sorry for the long post.
Thanks for your input too Bradley. Please take my statement with “trap” not too seriously. It was meant a bit over the top and with a smile. At the end we are discussing about music and instruments, so this should always be a fun discussion. I am more than happy for everybody who has a great time with the actual euphoric wave, that is going on in the Eurorack world (specific the Eurorack format).
What ever works for each one and is fun, than its the right tool for you.
I am now 4 years into the journey and build some systems and tried many many modules. I downsized and still have 6u 208hp System left. So I just want to share a bit about my journey and my obversation where this scene is heading at the moment.
Where to start ? Maybe first the good points :
-FUN :
man it´s so fun, especially in the beginning. The research, planning and than getting the modules and seeing how the systems expands and getting more useful is a so fun process. Also having the synthesis so physical and seeing and plugging the audio and modulation-flow is so rewarding. There is not much more addictive when unpacking a new module and installing into your rack. Its your baby and you see it grow.
-EDUCATIONAL
Having NOT a box (i mean a non-modular synthesizer) where all signal flow and even functions are burried under the hood or in menues is super refreshing. Studying each module and having it physical right before you and experimenting with it, helped me personally a lot getting better in synthesis.
-INNOVATION
There are some truly innovative designs to be found, that were missing many years in electronic-instruments-development. Crazy sequencers and modulation-sources, physical modelling and granular tape recorders. You find it.
-COMMUNITY
I´ve met a lot of amazing, fun and very helpful people, that even got friends. It was a super cool experience to share the joy of the journey, getting help and helping others and sharing the knowledge, BUT … see the shady side…
Now the shady side :
-NO NORMS/STANDARDS + many manufacturers
This is a painful one. There is no standard in Eurorack. You have hundreds of manufacturers now, but no standard for the CV-flow. This means, that you need a lot of tools (attenuaters ,offsets …) to let the modules acting with each other fine. Some take unipolar, some bi-polar voltages. So you need to read carefully the ranges and adjust with your cv-tools. This takes for me some fun out of the process and often you wonder why you don´t get anything useful out of your module? The answer is : you don´t hit the modulation sweetspots. I also experienced modules that didn´t get triggered, sequencers skipping steps and getting out of phase, loopers lossing sync and so on.
I also had a serious power problem that created a whine in the audio signal flow. Although I planned my modular carefully and was right in the power specifications. The whine didn´t go away. Even Schneidersladen tried to repair the board. Nothing helped, till I bought a new power-solution for 300,-€.
You just deal with a lot of different companies and philosophies in a pretty non-standardized universe. One more bad experience with this regard : I had a pretty popular sequencer that wasn´t syncing to my E-RM Multiclock, that is very important and syncs all my rig (all of my other modules with clock input where totally fine that way). It went bonkers when clocked by the multiclock. I read at Muffwiggler that people had similar problems. Opened even a ticket on their site. Waited two months and got no response and had to sell it. Sometimes companies also play the blaming-ping -pong-game.
I have to say I had the best experiences when modules acted within their brand. Than you felt some magic. Like the Verbos combo (CO, Multistage + ATC). That was just super nice how the oscillator sounded through the ATC and how organic the multistage modulated the CO. Or the intellijel modules. Like how nice the quadra envelope opens the uvca and the Rubicon, + Dixie + ufold combo created cristallclear TZFM or the Make Noise shared system… You clearly feel the intention of the design of the manufacturer. It feels more like an instrument. Of course all the fun of creating your own instrument falls flat with this approach and isn´t that the biggest reason you dive into it ?
-Addiction vs. musical output
This will very few admit, but I observe it at many guys and friends and even at myself. You get total addicted and you are constantly researching, planning (modulargrid) and hunting for new modules. It never ends. You put so much time into it, because it is just fun. You can even feel hunted, because you need THIS and THAT module THAN my system will be much better or I can perform how I always wanted, till the next one comes out. Or things don´t work out how you planned and you replan everything and the journey starts from the beginning. AND don´t forget the tools for that modules too ! Oh my rack is full ! I need a new one ! Not enough VCAs…
That all leads to less musical output and I see it everywhere. Me, friends and other wigglers/artists.
-Quality of finished compositional musical results
Although you get very fast something going with a bit of knowledge, I find very few modular compositions musical pleasing. Of course this point can get super philosophical, because everybody recieving music different (where music starts and ends), but this is my feeling about it. Even some of my favourite electronic artists that went modular, delivered for me far less superior endproducts.
You get very fast results using the right modules. Because of the innovation and demand and willingness to release a module for every need. There are modules that deliver for you rhythms (NE Zularic & Numeric Repetitioner, MI Grids & Marbles), modules that create cv modulations that you can loop (Turing machine, Marbles) and of course quantizers that fit any CV into musical scales. You have a lot of happy accidents and sometimes super cool musical loops and phrases, but I find it gets old after a while and I sometimes felt that it is not me that is creating that. And of course look at the millions of krell-patch-videos… Not my thing.
But when you really want to create and compose complete songs it starts to get hairy.
First : find the right sequencer. There are two kind of sequencers. The super fun ones (Metropolis, Multistage, Rene) and the powerful ones (Eloquencer, ER-101,…). The super fun ones get you going fast and are … super fun and hands on. But often limited. You want to break the limits very fast, because your results lack compositional complexity and it starts to bore you. Like only 8 Steps or only one track (1XCV +1x gate). The powerful sequencers put a lot of functionality into a tiny room-space because Eurorack is small. And suddendly your Analog four that you can get used for under the price of one eurorack sequencer looks both! Fun and powerful + provides the synthesis power of a Eurorack-system that would costs you more than 5000,-€. You start to think…
Played not long time ago a Dominion 1. Not only that this thing sounded absolutly superb. It was just refreshing to adjust modulation very fast with some knobs. getting ringmod going here, playing a melody with the keyboard, using the touch sliders to perform a modulation, don´t have to tune the oscillators (a lot of Eurorack Oscillators goes out of tune over time, have big sensitive knobs that you wiggle accidently or are used for FM without TZFM , so you are constantly tuning these f****s).
Also just concentrating on my Rytm and my Digitone and just ignoring the modular for a while resulted in much better & refined musical results. I just discovered for me again that practicing the art/playing and training on finished instruments with their boundaries yields in more satisfaction for me.
I felt I lost a lot of time in the last years with the modular approach.
-COSTS :
Because of the addictive nature and many small boutique companies that can´t mass produce. This starts to cost a lot of money pretty fast. DIY or not DIY. Used or not used. A decent system costs thousands of Euros. And you want get there asap. And it get´s worse. Because you invested so much already and it doesn´t work out how you planned it , you put more into it and more. There are jokes about guys not having to eat anything because they gave their last penny for the new hip module that saves their system. But I met people that this hobby affected their private life in a negative way. (couldn´t make vacation etc.). You just need to compare what parts are in an Analog 4 or Digitone. Let alone the LFO-section. 8 LFO plus each a vca and attenuater costs already more than the Analog four. Don´t let me start with sequencer… Its just unbelievable expensive.
And what I also observe extremely in the present. Modular/Eurorack is praised to be end of it all. If it´s not modular = its sucks. This yields in statements like the WMD performance mixer be much better than all Allen & Heath, Soundcraft & Mackie, -solutions. A tiny module with barely usable faders, no inserts, groups, routing or a EQ. Just ridiculous. Or a whole 808 without any modulation inputs as a module. Everything MUST be Eurorack, because the addiction must be satisfied.
And that´s just plain wrong. Modular shines in experimental, monophonic , rhythmic and heavy modulated sequences creation. Effects, Mixing, whole classic drummachines and polyphonic keyboard play are much cheaper and better realized with careful designed products from manufactures that do this for centuries. The tiny formfactor of Eurorack alone don´t fits for all purposes.
-COMMUNITY :
(continued from the “good points”)…, unfortunately and sadly in many places today and especially on the internet (looking strange to the “Overbridge”-thread) the tone is changing massively. People with no manners and no patience coming more and more into the scene, acting rude and shelfish. Maybe its just the nature when a community grows so big so fast. Who knows? I found it more fun two years ago.
wooo, that was long. Hope I don´t put somebody to sleep. But it comes from the heart. It was a long journey and I am not completely sure it was worth it. Of course the learning experience was super useful. Musical output definitely declined. Don´t want to discourage people to try this way. But I have a feeling the Eurorack-scene got a bit out control at the moment and there is a lot of overhype. It has his strengths, but my advise is to really think strong were your musical path is leading you and what kind of musical end-result you want to achieve before climbing into that wormhole…
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Thx for your input. I’ve been on the verge of going modular for a long time - all my friends being into it - but I have refrained from doing it for the exact same reasons you underscore in your post. This reinforces me into thinking I’m taking the right road… and saves me a lot of time and money 
(I’m the happy owner of a MnM+MD combo + Eventide Space & TimeFactor and couldn’t be more satisfied)
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Lot’s of good points.
I have experienced alot of similar things, however with smaller impact, cause I forced myself to keep my system small and not to spend more than 2k (+0coast). But small systems are difficult to design so that they make sense. You have to sacrifice a lot workflow convenience for getting small multi-function modules with tiny knobs and displays (I have three µ-modules up for sale btw, haha)
When I got the digitone, and got back to my A4 more and more, I realised how much my workflow and musical outpout improved again. It sure is a lot of fun, patching can be really meditative and happy accidents are nice moments of joy but
I feel that point a lot. I was so enthusiastic about quantizers and turing machine stuff, or self generating patches, but I forgot how much I prefer the melodies that I create myself. Right from my brain into the elekron sequencer or my DAW. All the melodies I love most in my tracks, I invented myself using a keyboard (even if it was the lovely A4 mini-keys).
And that is also so true and a major point I sell my stuff. It’s crazy expensive. There is no doubt about that.
I’m not willing to spend a fortune in a decent system.
But no judging. I hate the bleeps and bloops comments. There are many amazing musicians making amazing music on eurorack systems. As always, it’s about the user, not the tools. For me it’s just not worth the investement. But what do I know, I change my opinion on setups quite frequently
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I agree with a lot of what you say Monopete. The addiction is real. The lack of standards bothers me though it’s never been a serious problem. It makes it incredibly confusing when first starting out though. Just my opinion, but there aren’t too many people playing strictly modular synth in a new or creative way and the ones that do would probably make excellent music regardless of the instrument used.
Unifono, I’m going through a similar love phase with A4 mk1! I knew it would be powerful but once I actually got my hands on it my euro hasn’t seen much action. At least until I start to tackle CV between the two
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Well I do know that its sometimes hard to sell used modules. Don’t know if its because Eurorack isn’t so hot anymore, but it should be possible to build a nice system with used modules that wouldn’t break the bank.
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In my experience eurorack has more of a collectors tint to it than a musicians tint. Used modules often are listed by sellers for like ten dollars cheaper or much higher than retail as certain modules have “collectors value”. It’s generally just better to buy new unless the module you want is out of production and can’t be obtained new. There is unfortunately no inexpensive way to get into modular.
I’m my opinion the easiest way to enter eurorack is to buy one of the “complete” systems offered. Pittsburgh modular, make noise, synthrorek are a few that make good ones and then if necessary one can swap out or add modules.
More on topic, for price, flexibility, and versatility, a monomachine does beat out a modular setup. Additionally, the monomachine can achieve modular like results
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