Agree! I try to do this at my day job. I design and engineer network solutions. So I want something that is as simple as possible while accomplishing the need and at the same time giving enough flexibility to overcome technical challenges and adapt to future needs.
Anyways there is probably a more succinct way to say that, but it just echoes what you’re saying. I like watching Rube Goldberg machines, they are super cool, but I don’t want to build or troubleshoot them when they break.
So with music, for my own work, it should have just enough and no more. That said I do enjoy listening to elaborate over the top stuff sometimes. I just don’t want to make it. Personality thing I guess. For me there is a fine line between too little and just enough. I think that line is different for everyone. I don’t think I could get down with 6 minutes of a kick drum. Some people can. Hmmm that actually sounds like an interesting challenge though!
Hah, yeah I’ve heard somewhere that synesthesia - usually framed as this magical condition of seeing sounds - is fairly common actually. Not so far fetched for melodies to feel like arches or timbre to be spiky, that sort of thing.
If the OP doesn’t object, I’m posting another recent piece here as I feel like- if it fits anywhere- it fits better here than the ‘share your tunes’ thread. It actually started as a ‘kick drum only’ experiment in response to some posts in the thread, but took a divergent turn somewhere. However it does only use variations of one patch on a Blofeld that started life as a kick drum!
I know what you mean. I think I was trying to express something about the experience of ‘time’ rather than a synesthesiac(?) experience. But that does raise great questions about the relationships between different forms of sensory experience (touch, taste etc) and how we experience time.
I always think of bands that have at the least two members, 3 piece, 4 etc. maybe some groups have 9 members or whatever. But really, every band member is a track. Or at least a group of tracks (like a drum kit).
It all depends on song structure really. I understand the idea of breaking out of genres, but working within a genre can be a nice signpost for exploring sounds within a pre-defined set of rules - and you can start to bend them.
This also brings me back to bands - who generally work with a particular instrument their entire career and albums etc. it’s not like the drummer is the guitarist on the next album, or they change their instrumentation entirely from record to record (although I’m sure there are examples of this).
It’s a whole other level for a producer. You are all the band members unless you collaborate or are in a group. You are in control of all the instrumentation.
Think about someone like Burial - he did all these super interesting things with a defined set of sounds. The way he treated vocals and made his drum tracks. And that sound carried through his albums and across releases.
Somehow in there I feel like that’s more important than being minimal or whatever - it’s about being clear in your head about what your sonic palette is and biting the bullet in some senses. I guess this is the same as a guitarist finding their tone or a drummer tuning their kit a certain way.
Pantha du prince is another example I think of someone who honed in on a particular sound and followed it for a few records. His stuff really sounds like him.
Well put. I’ve been coming to that point over the last few months or so I think. Especially using the OT, there is a real sense of all the possibilities it is capable of. Letting go of the idea that I need to realise as many of those possibilities as possible, to prove to myself that I ‘can’- and instead commiting to the limited range of sounds I find personally engaging or satisfying- has been resulting in making more music that I actually like and want to listen to! I don’t worry anymore if other people might think it’s boring.
I completely agree with being clear in your head and clear with your vision. But isn’t that a form of minimizing, cutting away that which doesn’t not serve? Or dropping ideas that don’t suit the goal?
I didn’t want to hijack this thread with my own realizations when I started my EP project in earnest instead of continuing my multi decade noodle (and abandon) sessions, so I started another thread dedicated to that and asked for input on people’s experiences with focused song composition.
I’ve had to drop dozens of preconceived notions and embrace others that I thought I never would. That has the direct affect of clearing your head, focusing, and ultimately being succinct with those ideas that are left. Pulling them off like Burial though… that’s on a whole other level .
I was just thinking about the Jim White/Emmett Kelly duo The Double the other day. I saw them a few years back when they supported Lambchop (Lambchop was one of the most dismal live shows I have ever witnessed, but that’s another story).
As fate would have it, I went to a record store and there was a perfect condition second hand copy of the record. Although the sound is miles away from what I would normally think of when I think ‘minimalism’- there it is: one chord, one beat, 45 minutes. Oh wait- there’s a chord change about 30 minutes in! Minimalist rock and roll? One of the delicious details about the record is that it is mastered by Helge Sten. The liner notes by Alan Licht are a treat too.
Finally had the chance to read most of this thread. Some great insights and examples.
I’ve been thinking about minimalism a lot more lately; usually my go-to for minimalist composition is Nanoloop (the GBA version), but recently I’ve been trying to express similar structures using the Digitone. It’s quite difficult though, as I feel like the Digitone always pushes me to write my typical chord progressions, which I think detracts from the idea I usually have when I attempt to write minimal music. I’m torn between just embracing the use of more “traditional” chord progressions among minimalist/sparse sound design, and actively forcing myself to strip things down so any progressions are, at most, implied, rather than being up front. It also doesn’t help that I seem to be inspired by almost everything I listen to recently, e.g. after I finished listening to the latest Plaid album the other day, I thought to myself “well, maybe it’s not too bad having upfront chord progressions”.
Does anyone else deal with the desire to make things more melodic than they should stylistically be? Or does nobody else tend to overthink style restraints, and just fkn get on with making music
I find this sort of thing quite often. The passing months and probably close to a year or more now I’ve been adding melody and chords more obviously back into tracks. This is something I did lots back in the 90’s and so have that association to that sound. Typically I would do like you say, have it more abstract or embedded in the track, although it seems more about how it feels or how you approach making music than the end result often.
Now I have some keyboards back in the studio things are starting to become more natural in having chords or melody and that feeling of what I associate to what I do is slowly evolving and not worrying about chords or melody being this thing from the past and more just enjoying making music in whatever form it takes and let the definition part undoubtedly occur in a listener or review or similar.
I think one of the best lessons I’ve recently picked up was from Dave Chappell while on Seinfield’s Comedians in cars drinking coffee, where he talks about letting the idea do the driving, and not you. Don’t get yourself in the way of a good track.
Ha, that’s great advice. I’ve been writing a ton of stuff since my last comment, and I’m getting a bit better at the minimalism… but at the same time, trying to embrace melody as well. I think part of it is that I do have a keyboard plugged in while writing, so naturally gravitate towards playing some chord progressions along to it…
Lovely thread Speaking of minimalism in electronic music I think its rather peculiar that Pan(a)sonic is only mentioned one time - since they’re in my perspective some of the absolutely kings, when speaking of minimalism.
This track from their first record is says it all
Also Mika made the first record as Ø in 1994 - this track is from the future
In some ways, my stuff feels the opposite of minimalistic. I grew up listening to Dead Can Dance and Cocteau Twins, which definitely have their moments of minimalism - or at least a more ambient approach - but the stuff that’s really moved me is when Brendan Perry builds up layer upon layer of beautifully intertwined melodies and rhythms, or when Robin Guthrie creates these walls of sound.
My workspace on the other hand needs to be minimal, or I just get stressed!! I do most of my productive work on a laptop, but I love just sitting down away from the computer with my Digitone Keys and creating these complex soundscapes. The only other piece of hardware I own is the Digitakt which when paired with the DnK can really help to fill out the sound, but even adding that into the mix can distract/overwhelm me!
This thread is such a good read, much thanks for all the great posts.
Coming from a background in drone, doom, noise, and industrial, I find that minimalism as a principle is just as important to the best songs and albums in those genres.
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Speaking of minimalism in electronic music I think its rather peculiar that Pan(a)sonic is only mentioned one time - since they’re in my perspective some of the absolutely kings, when speaking of minimalism.