Midi Shituation (advanced puzzle)

@BURN How will my A4 recieve notes from the midi keyboard then?

Well the midi keyboard Out is combined with the a4 Out by the 2x2. That combined signal is then duplicated by the MIDI Solutions Quadra Thru and the four copies are sent to the In on the electron machines.
So MnM & 2 Rytms are getting the clock from the A4 and all four receive midi from the keyboard and as thru port output is just a copy of whats coming in the In port you can daisy chain your other stuff off them. And i wouldnt just make one long chain off just one machine because the degredation of midi signals is due to the opto isolators that little light that flashes the data across a physical space to be read by a photo cell on the other side as fast as it is has a ramp time and as i understand it thats what causes problems on long [multiple chained ]systems.
Anyway you probably know that and thats why you got the Quadra through, I just like thinking about that no physical connection between machines that little flashing light signalling across a chasm
Does that make any sense, let me know if it works

The complexity of the solution depends on the complexity of the situation.

You appear to be wanting to use the Monomachine and your DAW as your main sequencers. Do you want to gave the DAW and the MM running at the same time in sync, or do you only use them separately?

If the MM and DAW are the sequencers, there is no sense in anything else providing the master MIDI clock source.

What model is your master keyboard? Is there any reason why you couldn’t use the Sub37 as the master keyboard?

What are your other MIDI synths?

Depending on your answers there is likely an easy way to realize your desired system with your existing gear, although if you want more flexibility it might well be useful to get a better MIDI interface (as others have suggested).

@PeterHanes

My midi keyb is the Impulse 61 from novation. I think the sub 37 is a bit to menu diving for quick midi channel selecting ;).
Other gear is just waldorf pulse 2, waldorf streichfett and a piano module ;).

It’s very occasional that I use DAW to start my elektrons. It happens but not often. For the times it happen I want it to be OK without changing midi cables and having headaches thinking about how what … kills the vibe.
If I’m working in my daw I want to select the midi channel in the DAW track and play notes from my Ableton Push or midi clip going though the waldorfs, Mnm, and tracking audio in.

If not working with daw, its my midi keyboard I search and play sounds with, If I find what I like, record the notes into the MnM midi sequencer …

@PeterHanes

If I could reduce the work that comes with switching between DAW and midi keyb with just pulling out 1 cable
I should be happy :smiley:

Your desired setup would benefit greatly from a proper multi port MIDI interface as described by others above.

If you only want to use your existing equipment, you could try the following MIDI connections:

Keyboard Out to PC interface In
PC interface Out to MM In
MM Out to 2x2 In 1
MM Thru to 2x2 In 2

2x2 Out to QThru In

Connect everything else (chaining where necessary) to the 4 MIDI Thru ports of the QThru.

Use the sequencer (DAW or MM) as the MIDI clock source. Set the MM to send or receive clock messages as appropriate.

My audio interface does not send incoming midi signals directly to the midi out port. I think that’s not possible without routing it in my DAW. And I dont like to put my PC on just for that.
Anyway, I’m trying @Burn his last comment. i think that might work. First drawing the cables.

@Burn

SO CLOSE!

In this setup I need one more merger I think

@Burn

Here I switched the MnM and A4 from “place” and this might work ???
If MnM is the clock I should set Recieve clock / transport of and Send ON
If DAW is clock I should set Recieve C/T to ON and send to OFF?

now lets try this :slight_smile:

@Burn

Damnit, everything works fine CLOCK / TRANSPORT / note recieves on all devices

EXEPT, the devices are not in sync, i can hear he tries to sync the other elektrons but it “pushes and pulls the tempo” I think the monomachine is having difficulties sending out a clock, and recieving (not listening) his own clockand sending it through the THRU port. Anyway, yesterday in my first setup (first picture) I also had the midi sequencer MnM problem that some notes seem to “hang on”. only if I play a new note it triggers like a note off. Funny thing is he doesnt do that to all notes. I can see on my MOOG that there is constantly coming in a midi data, that is not normal. Maybe it’s the same problem? the MnM is a new unit and has the latest drivers

EDIT: that note hanging seems to be a midi chain problem (if i connect the moog directly to the MnM midi out = no problems) Probably the tempo sync push pull problem is the same midi chain problem

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LOL :d I should thank you for your effort for drawing this :smiley: really I’m serieus. That’s a lot of midi cables! Sure that I can route / MERGE everything I want with this method? When saved the “routing program” is it still neccesary to POWER ON the PC/MAC?

In your last diagram take the MnM out into the MSQT in now just check for sync all your Elekton stuff should start stop pause restart in sync, if it does replace the leads as in your diagram now take the 2x2 out b into the MSQT check for sync again and midi notes. If that works with the elektron stuff add the other synths [I know this is obvious but local control needs to be set to off]
Now if all that works thats your set up not using the PC, when you want to involve the PC get rid of the MS merge take the out from the audio interface straight into the MSQT let the lead from the MnM just dangle make the PC the master and the MnM a slave like the rest of them. That shouldn’t interfere to much with your creative flow ‘lead swoop and change two settings’

No the other way round, receive off send on if you want your DAW to be the master

The sync problem in this diagram might be due to two identical clock signals clock signals being merged by the MS merge

THRU ports only send out a copy of whats coming in the IN

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Perhaps I should start a new topic, but has anyone seen this? : http://www.iconnectivity.com/mio10

Looks like it could solve some of the OP’s issues. Similar to the aforementioned MOTU. I was actually looking at getting the MOTU, but like the idea of some USB MIDI for the OP-1.

anyone knows the difference between the Mio4 and the Midi4+ from the same iconnectivity company?

these are exactly the kinds of issues i was describing in another thread… basically its a direct sign you need a MIDI router/patchbay device… these results you describe are the evidence that your setup has outgrown your rig’s current MIDI capabilities

and yes, the Mio devices are the most modern and current version of such a thing… honestly im planning to get the Mio10 at some point in the next year or so - i currently have a MOTU MTP-AV that I picked up used on Ebay for $50 … it was a great deal because the guy thought his unit was malfunctioning because it wouldnt save patches when you turn off the unit - but thats just a dead CMOS battery, so i replaced it and now it works perfect… when those things were new they cost over $600

Yes, well I’m looking for a 2nd hand Motu or edirol device but in Belgium they are rare to find. So i’m checking the new one’s out but don’t understand the difference between a MIO4 and a IconnectiviyMIDI4. In the specs they look rather the same, the routing manager is not really very clear also. I think the motu router is more “visual”.

I havent investigated them in detail so Im not sure… however Ive heard about product overlap from this company before regarding their previous iconnectivity devices, so I wouldnt be surprised if its the same here

the MOTU MTP devices were made for pro studio work - in addition to all the MIDI routing and so forth, they also send out MIDI timecode that is synced directly to the audio stream (if you use the computer connection), they have coax outputs, they can do tape-machine control, etc. etc. - in other words, they arent exactly “consumer” or “prosumer” type devices, so there is definitely a learning curve if you are not a trained sound engineer or have lots of familiarity with MIDI in all its forms and applications

with that being said, it does mean you get those “pro” capabilities which are extensive, and yes the most key thing - you can edit everything from the front panel… you dont need a computer - ive got the serial interface version, so it would be tough if not impossible to get that going on today’s hardware anyways… but you dont have to use that part, because again, you can do everything directly on the front panel interface

its one of those kinds of devices that you probably wont realize how much you need it if you never owned one before… once you get one and see how much time you save, and how much better things work, how quickly you can fix issues, etc - then you will understand why its so valuable

Thanks, meanwhile I got the answer about the iconnectivitys. The MIDI+ also transmits audio between IOS devices so it’s a bit of a audio interface to. Since i dont need that I see the MIO4 will fit my needs. For only 172 euro new I wont hesitate. I wont need my mergers and thrus anymore so I can sell them!

Thanks for the help everyone :wink: