Midi Bank Select (outgoing)

Deus2k · 2019-03-05T17:33:29.933Z

I managed doing a Bank and Program Change on the SRC menu just by using a IConnect Midi 4+ and remap the right channel …
Tonight I will try other options again

PeterHanes · 2019-05-09T17:59:11.950Z

Digitone OS 1.20 introduces a new SBNK parameter for its MIDI sequencer tracks that sends CC32. Elektron even says that this is a bug fix in the release notes. Can we hope that Elektron provides a similar bug fix for the Octatrack after all these years?

Edit to add: let’s hope Elektron gets it right if they try a similar bug fix on the OT:

Sending Bank Changes after 1.20 Update Digitone/Digitone Keys

Prior to the latest update, I had set up all my tracks to properly send program/bank changes to my hardware synths. Since the unit did not initially send Sbank messages correctly, I would use a workaround to access the different midi Banks on my Alesis Micron by sending a midi message with CC32 followed by the standard patch change message. After updating, they changed the way Program Change messages were sent out and this this little trick does not seem to work anymore. But to add to my woes, t…

sovietpop · 2019-10-19T14:23:44.490Z

I’ve done some testing with my Octatrack and Ambika and i think there is a bug with bank change on the Octatrack.

My Ambika only use CC0 (MSB) for bank change so it should be fine. (doesnt need LSB CC32)

If i program 3 parts with different program change with different bank num it work BUT the
2 successive program change number must be different otherwise its not working.
EX :

Part 1 : program 20 bank 0
Part 2 program 13 bank 1
part 3 : program 20 bank 1

If i do part 1 -> part 2 -> part 3 its fine but if i do part 1 -> part 3 it doesnt change bank because i keep the same program number. same thing for 3->1. So the limitation here is if 2 successives programs change has the same program number it doesnt change bank.

Also i must disable prog change in sync menu in prference.

sezare56 · 2019-10-19T14:43:28.411Z

sovietpop:

If 2 successives programs change has the same program number it doesnt change bank.

2 successive Control Changes are not sent too. It has to be an option.

sovietpop:

Also i must disable prog change in sync menu in prference.

Why? If it’s on a different midi channel…

sovietpop · 2019-10-19T15:04:04.104Z

Its just weird that i cant change bank if i dont change the program number.

And having to change part to change program is confusing imo. Sample assignment are changing too so i have to copy part 1 to part 2 and after that i have to set the proper midi channel , program etc.
Would make sens to have parts for midi and part for audio … i dont know…

I really like the Octatrack but i am thinking more and more about a Deluge for live work.

sezare56 · 2019-10-19T17:29:13.279Z

sovietpop:

Its just weird that i cant change bank if i dont change the program number.

More than weird, I’d say buggy, not finished…

I solved that with a midi processor, mapping notes or CCs to Program Changes. It gives the possibility to change PCs when you want, randomize them…without part changes.
With a Blofeld I even used drums patches of a bank as a drum kit, notes and Pcs at the same time.

Concerning polyphony and overdub limitations, I have an MPC500 I don’t use.

LazyLion · 2019-11-06T22:39:46.000Z

Greetings,

So prior to today I’ve never heard of NRPN messages. To my understanding they exist to cover parameters that aren’t otherwise covered by simple CC messages.

I’m trying to change bank/patch selection via OT, like in the MIDI note menu. When I turn those knobs nothing seems to happen on the Rev2. I see at the end of the Rev2 manual that changing programs/patches is not covered by a CC message, but rather an NRPN message.

How do I control bank/patch selection via the OT without a CC message? How do I know what CCs to combine to be able to map a knob on the OT that DOES control bank/patch selection?

PeterHanes · 2019-11-07T01:21:31.156Z

NRPN with Rev2 to OT

prior to today I’ve never heard of NRPN messages. To my understanding they exist to cover parameters that aren’t otherwise covered by simple CC messages.

That’s basically correct.

NRPN with Rev2 to OT

I see at the end of the Rev2 manual that changing programs/patches is not covered by a CC message, but rather an NRPN message.

No. You have confused Program Change (which is given in the list of received channel messages) with program parameter data (which the Rev2 can receive either by CC or NRPN).

NRPN with Rev2 to OT

How do I control bank/patch selection via the OT without a CC message? How do I know what CCs to combine to be able to map a knob on the OT that DOES control bank/patch selection?

To send a Program Change message, you can either:

set the OT to send the message whenever it switches to a new pattern, or
set a value for PROG in the NOTE SETUP page of a MIDI sequencer track.

Both methods will allow you to change to any program in the currently-selected bank of the Rev2.

While there is a BANK parameter in the NOTE SETUP page, Elektron didn’t implement it according to the MIDI standard and it will therefore have no effect on the Rev2.

The Rev2 manual says (received controller messages) that it uses CC 32 for the Bank Select message with values from 1 to 8 for the 8 banks of programs. Therefore, to change bank and program, you would need to send it CC 32 with the appropriate bank value and IMMEDIATELY follow it with Program Change and the number of the desired program.

Earlier posts in this topic give some examples of the workaround in action.

(Elektron has acknowledged this as a bug for the Digitakt and Digitone and fixed it, but Octatrack owners still await a fix.)

LazyLion · 2019-11-07T01:55:01.575Z

Thanks for the reply.

I think I understand the second method you mentioned somewhat, but how would I set the OT to send the message whenever it switches to a new pattern? I’ll also look at some of the other posts ITT.

PeterHanes · 2019-11-07T02:04:59.868Z

LazyLion:

how would I set the OT to send the message whenever it switches to a new pattern?

In the OT’s PROJECT > MIDI > SYNC menu:

activate PROG CH SEND, and
set the channel number to match the MIDI channel number of the Rev2.

In the Rev2’s Global settings, set MIDI Program Enable to “On”.

This will cause to Rev2 to switch to a program corresponding to the OT’s pattern number. Pattern A01 selects program 1, A02 selects program 2, B01 selects program 17, and so on.

LazyLion · 2019-11-07T02:40:52.272Z

Excellent – thank you.

I noticed in the Global Settings of the Rev2 there is a setting for “MIDI Param Send/Receive”, this allows me to change the information from NRPN to CC. Would changing this help me at all or just complicate things further?

PeterHanes · 2019-11-07T02:55:59.417Z

LazyLion:

I noticed in the Global Settings of the Rev2 there is a setting for “MIDI Param Send/Receive”, this allows me to change the information from NRPN to CC. Would changing this help me at all or just complicate things further?

MIDI Param Send is irrelevant here, of course.

It’s not clear to me whether MIDI Param Receive would enable/disable receipt of the CC 32 Bank Select message. I assume that it applies to program parameters, not Bank Select, and so should have no effect for your current experiment. You have the Rev2, so you have the chance to try it out and report back to us!

LazyLion · 2019-11-07T03:01:15.898Z

I’ll fiddle around and see how it goes

jurassic · 2020-01-24T23:24:10.922Z

Um, why is this so flippin hard? I had a waldorf blofeld where the bank changes was working fine with program changes. Now I am trying to do similar changes across banks using the DSI Prophet Rev2 to very little to no success. According to the midi Monitor the OT is sending Bank and program changes based on each channel but the Prophet is not receiving as such. Is this just a headache we all just have to live with for eternity??

jurassic · 2020-01-24T23:24:32.796Z

Did you ever figure this out with Rev2?

sezare56 · 2020-01-25T00:45:48.612Z

jurassic:

I had a waldorf blofeld where the bank changes was working fine

IIRC Blofeld uses CC0.
The DSI problably needs CC0 and CC32.
OT sends CC0 only.

I succeeded to send CC0 and C32 this way :

New project
Set your Prog Change, Bank Off
Place a trig with CC0 (MSB) and CC32 (LSB) with their bank values
Microtiming = - 5/384
Done

roadmoviemusic · 2020-01-25T08:52:18.143Z

sezare56:

Set your Prog Change, Bank Off
Place a trig with CC0 (MSB) and CC32 (LSB) with their bank values
Microtiming = - 5/384
Done

And what about the “cc’s are only sent if not equal to previous”“feature”? That does apply here to, doesn’t it? It’s been a while, I got so frustrated with OT’s midi that I got a Pyramid for midi, so I don’t remember all the subtleties of OT’s midi implementation anymore. I had enough of all this hear-pulling…

sezare56 · 2020-01-25T09:03:03.108Z

roadmoviemusic:

cc’s are only sent if not equal to previous”“feature”? That does apply here to, doesn’t it?

Salut. Yes. You may need to send a different CC value just before if the previous bank has same CC0 or CC32 values.
Not practical for sure.
Certain Notes and Midi processor should work.

jurassic · 2020-01-25T16:14:21.968Z

When you say microtiming = -5/384 are you placing that trig on the first step? Did I read correctly above that Elektron has implemented this change (making the machines send on CC0 and CC32) for Digitakts. Do we see any lane for an update from Elektron for OT?

sezare56 · 2020-01-25T16:53:56.371Z

jurassic:

When you say microtiming = -5/384

Did I?
It doesn’t mean anything in real world…
Yes first step. Surprisingly working at first pattern pass. Next value on the left not working. Maybe tempo dependant, I don’t remember well if I checked at 300 bpm X2!

jurassic:

Do we see any lane for an update from Elektron for OT?

I’d rather see a tempo per pattern or…nothing?
We’ll see.