Microcosm or small Eurorack possible?

g0nz0uk · 2022-11-28T20:24:54.093Z

Hello,

I was thinking of getting a Microcosm to team up with my Digitakt and Digitone, but it’s expensive if you are based in the UK. I like what it can do, but also read it’s a box of presets and you can’t get to granular maybe some would disagree. I’ve seen some suggest creating a small Eurorack with beads and a midi controller and maybe another module and it could end up cheaper or a similar price and the Beads has way more to offer.

I was wondering if anyone else has gone down this route and if so what did you get and what was it like get them all linked up (midi and clock)?

The only experience I have with Eurorack is VCV.

Thanks

johnl · 2022-11-28T20:46:17.465Z

Starting on Eurorack will end up costing you much more in the long run.

gekkonier · 2022-11-28T20:58:28.740Z

yes.
it’s the truth.
don’t do that if you want to keep your monies.

RustyRoses · 2022-11-29T10:54:39.890Z

I have Beads and the CV Pal. Its not the same as having a Microcosm.

Python · 2022-11-29T11:19:34.165Z

Maybe the poly beebo would be a nice solution for you. It can take two stereo inputs so you can have separate fx chains for your DN and DT. It also has ports of some mutable instruments eurorack modules, including clouds, so you can go granular. It’s not as straightforward as the microcosm, but you have complete freedom in building your fx chains (edit: as long as the CPU allows it, the clouds module is pretty CPU intensive).

JohnnyEgo · 2022-11-29T11:59:04.447Z

iam using two Mutable Instruments Clouds with parasites and a Streams module in-between.

therefore iam using one clouds as a separate buffer within the stereo field, cross panning and such…

Streams is the best dual VCA with Analog filtering per channel and different envelopes etc.

it really covers my personal grounds of looping a guitar or synthpads into this space oddity.

the reverb on clouds is no exception. it’s really good.

I would just concentrate on a system small enough to fit these modules + mixer or the Disting mk4

dokev · 2022-11-29T12:16:07.950Z

Very little chance that even the most minimal Eurorack set up will end up saving you that much money. Between Beads itself, whatever modules you need to get things from line to modular level and back again, a case, and whatever other modules you put in there to modulate Beads/MIDI to CV module + mixer etc etc etc, you’re looking at a cost in the same region, if not more expensive. Plus, you’ll end up addicted to Eurocrack, which is not a good way to save money.

I’d also say, as someone who owns both of them, that they are not really that similar. Microcosm is basically a bunch of set granular-derived effects which you can only really control through two macro knobs (activity and repeats) and a shape control. Beads is a bonafide granularizer with which you can precisely control the pitch/size/time/density of grains generated from your audio + a wavetable synth + a delay. Beads is remarkably self contained for a eurorack module (parameters can be modulated by onboard, dial-in-able randomisation when no CV is patched in), but Eurorack modules are expecting to be in a system with other modules that augment and enhance them, in a way a guitar pedal doesn’t.

In short: Microcosm is decent for some granular frosting on your audio but don’t expect too much more; Beads is a more like a very well chosen slice of an actual granular synth, and needs the context of other modules to truly shine. And I wouldn’t say either one is an alternative to the other.

FWIW though I wouldn’t sell it now, I don’t think Microcosm is actually worth the money if you care at all about precisely controlling the parameters of your effects (which I do). You might get some good insights about pros and cons if you explain what you’d like to get out of either of these set ups, since they are quite different.

g0nz0uk · 2022-11-29T15:32:24.849Z

I did look at this too and the Zoia empress. What do you think of both?

I’d like to get something or even the small Eurorack route, but something as I love ambient.

g0nz0uk · 2022-11-29T15:37:53.237Z

Well I love ambient music and I know a lot of this is using effects. I love arpeggios, randomness and movement.

So I was looking at a device like the Microcosm, Zoia Empress or Poly Beebo, but then I thought what could I do with Eurorack and that would be fun and also give me a footprint in that world.

The Microcosm sound amazing, but I don’t like hearing that you can’t be different with it as others music can sound similar if you using it and less control as it does it own thing.

What would you have? Also if you did go the Eurorack route would modules would you get (Midi, mixer, arp, effects etc)? I know it would be more money and that is ok, but I’d like to compare.

Thanks

g0nz0uk · 2022-11-29T15:39:40.292Z

If you had to build a small Eurorack for effects, randomness, movement and arpeggios which would you build? I imagine the Digitakt could be used for the clock and sequencer too?

This would give me an idea of cost if I Google the modules and watch on YT.

Thanks

Monobear · 2022-11-29T15:40:29.598Z

I would go a completly different route to be honest. Since you have digi boxes, hook them on an I pad and take a look at borderlands. You can get a new I pad and put a lot of music stuff on it or you could go cheap.

Modular is still cool and beads is nice and you can put line Level in to it. But yeah its a rabbit hole and it will rip your saving apart.

Python · 2022-11-29T15:48:15.499Z

I don’t have any experience with the Zoia, but it seems to be well regarded by the people that own one.
I do have a poly beebo and I really like it. It’s not exactly cheap, but I’m having a hard time to come up with another fx box that offers so much in such a small format. 2 stereo ins, 2 stereo out, midi via USB and TRS. All kinds of modules ranging from fx, sequencers, synths, converters, etc., all freely configurable. The open architecture is as much a pro as it is con, though. It takes a while to set up a patch and there can be option paralysis, just because there are so many possibilities. Still, it’s pretty much a modular system in a box with recallable patches, so I very much prefer it over a small case with actual modules, but that’s just personal preference. Also, switching between patches takes a few seconds, that might be a no-go for some people.

dokev · 2022-11-29T17:42:17.568Z

I just put together a smaller case (104HP / 4U) which is a somewhat similar concept (built around a Morphagene instead of Beads) but I made it to be fairly standalone for reasons. You could get a fair bit of fire power with MIDI to CV from an Elektron box to fill in some functionality that you’d otherwise get from modules and wouldn’t then need half the stuff I put in my Morphagene machine.

MIDI to CV: CV.OCD for an out of rack solution, Mutant Brain for an in rack solution. If you had a case with a 1U rack, Intellijel 1U MIDI could work. Then you can sequence pitch with what you have (Beads tracks 1v/Oct), and you can also use CC LFOs from your DN or DT, including most crucially random waveform and sample & hold via trig hold mode for LFO. Note that Beads can self modulate with random on most of its parameters though.
Some modulation sources: Pam’s Workout (either the new Pro Workout, or the old New Workout which you can probably get vvvv cheap atm since everyone’s upgrading) is hard to beat for functionality: 8 outputs that can be divided/multiplied clocks, or clock synced LFOs/envelopes, all of which you can apply logic to to get more interesting gate sequences/modulation out. It can also generate random melodies, and you can quantize, for eg., a sine wave to a scale to get an arpeggiator. You don’t need attenuation for it since that can be programmed on board (and beads as attenuators on most controls anyway), and it could be clocked by your Elektrons if you have the MIDI to CV (or alternatively directly with MIDI if you have one of the expanders). You might also want an envelope generator (eg. Pip Slope or Make Noise Function).
Utilities: I’m not sure if line input to Beads results in line level output (I’d guess not) so you want some way to attenuate the signal back out to your line level gear a stereo attenuator will work, some manufacturers make purpose built “output” modules but it’s basically the same thing. Other things like VCAs / logic / switches / comparators / mixers are good if you want to generate more complex modulation or sequences from what you have, and that’s a whole rabbit hole that’s only worth thinking about if you’re committed to doing modular stuff - it is where the fun stuff is though, and is kinda why you would have a Eurorack system in the first place. If you don’t care about generating crazy modulation out of patches, there are VSTs and iPad apps that sound just as good - you get modular stuff because you want to manipulate voltage to manipulate your things imo.
For audio mixing, you probably don’t need that in a case unless your case has more than one ‘voice’. A minimal case that’s just for getting Beads going only really has one voice, and I would mix that inside one of your Elektron’s. I can’t remember if you can put either DN or DT input track through a filter, so you might want one of those too. You’ve got a stereo signal path, so need a stereo filter. Shakmat Dual Dagger is v. small and functional for that.

So a super super small case that was just a “Beads machine” could maybe be: Beads + Pam’s + Pip Slope + Dual Dagger + Stereo attenuator/output module, with a CV.OCD on the outside so you can clock it from an Elektron and send over some plocks CV / LFOs etc. You could chip away at some of these things (maybe you don’t reeeeallly need an envelope generator, maybe you can resample into DT and use that filter etc etc), but you pretty quickly get to the point where it no longer makes sense to have a Eurorack case vs just getting Borderlands on your iPad.

It is also a slippery slope into obsession, and I wouldn’t recommend it if you don’t have money to burn. If you bought everything I suggested for a small case you’re probably a grand in the hole already, basically double the price of the Microcosm. You said you had VCV Rack earlier: Clouds (previous version of Beads) is in there, exactly the same code as the module. Use that, see if you’d really get that much more out of it being hardware before you take the plunge.

g0nz0uk · 2022-11-29T18:08:48.732Z

wow let me digest this wonderful reply before I reply, my word thank you.

HBIII · 2022-12-02T03:29:36.137Z

You can always hook them up to an interface and use ITB effects. Some plugin like like output portal would get you microcosm-like effects.