Merging song structures/ loading songs via midi (CC-sysex)?

F.U.N.K.Y · 2014-07-17T11:41:21.000Z

hi
i use both MnM & MD in a live setup. they’re fuckin’ awesome!!!
both machines run rather complex songstructures (brakes, rythmchanges, etc.)

a bit of a backdrop in livesituations is the long loading time for songs, (into the menu, scrolling, loading) and that on both machines.

a solution i think is to merge songstructures. that is to make a sort of super-songstucture containing several songs.

now the question is if there is a possibility to merge the songstructures i’ve already made. maybe in a softwareeditor via a sysexdump? or another way? because of the rather complex/long songstructures i use, it would otherwise take alot of work on a rather little screen to recreate what i’ve already done once…

Another way would be to be able to load songs via midi-cc or sysex; via an external midi controller…

Thank you for your help!!! and keep up the good work!
Grtz from Belgium
Michael

czukay · 2014-07-17T13:23:47.000Z

I’ve been wanting to ask this for a while but didn’t quite know how to word it.

Any answers?

jonah · 2014-07-17T16:19:15.000Z

i don’t know of a way to merge.

is there a way to switch songs on one machine and it’ll switch on the other? i’ve never messed with that.

i’m not sure there’s anything to do without a fair amount of manual editing.

you might try configuring the midi out and recording whatever midi gets sent out of your songs. if it puts out the pgm changes and tempo you might be able to pause the recorder, load your next song and then start recording again. with the monomachine i guess you’d still have to manually add in the offsets and stuff by using the note to pattern function? with the machinedrum i guess you’d have to switch between using patterns for locks, program changes to switch patterns and using straight midi notes to trigger drum sounds.

the manual does say you can use sysex to switch songs, but i’ve never tried it because i assumed it would be slow unless you were using turbo midi and a computer.

for live i mostly use an mpc 1000 or the octatrack to switch patterns with program changes or with note values. tend to use song mode for special effects and drop in an out of it.

Robbie · 2015-02-22T22:40:37.000Z

Sorry to bump up an oldish thread, but I didn’t want to start a new topic and am having relevant problems.

I’m trying to get my MPC 1000 to send program changes to the MnM (as I think jonah is describing), but it has no effect. On the MnM, under Global/Control Out, I have Program Changes set to “base.” (I’ve also tried Ch1, neither works). Oddy, in the manual, Program Changes seem to be either accepted or ignored, with no option to choose a MIDI channel. I’m assuming this was part of a firmware update.

I actually used the MnM to record some program changes into the MPC, then switched the cables around to play them back. On the MPC, under step edit, I can see the program changes in the sequence. As a test, I also punched in some track mute CCs and they go through just fine, but for some reason, the PCs still do not. I also tried manually inserting some PCs, but still to no avail.

It was my hope to use an outgoing track on the MPC as a simplified song mode for the MnM, so that I could avoid having to load each song.

Any ideas as to what I may be missing?

PeterHanes · 2015-02-23T01:54:37.000Z

""Robbie"":

Sorry to bump up an oldish thread, but I didn’t want to start a new topic and am having relevant problems.

I’m trying to get my MPC 1000 to send program changes to the MnM (as I think jonah is describing), but it has no effect. On the MnM, under Global/Control Out, I have Program Changes set to “base.” (I’ve also tried Ch1, neither works). Oddy, in the manual, Program Changes seem to be either accepted or ignored, with no option to choose a MIDI channel. I’m assuming this was part of a firmware update.

I actually used the MnM to record some program changes into the MPC, then switched the cables around to play them back. On the MPC, under step edit, I can see the program changes in the sequence. As a test, I also punched in some track mute CCs and they go through just fine, but for some reason, the PCs still do not. I also tried manually inserting some PCs, but still to no avail.

It was my hope to use an outgoing track on the MPC as a simplified song mode for the MnM, so that I could avoid having to load each song.

Any ideas as to what I may be missing?

Are you on the latest version of the MM firmware?

The appropriate setting for the MM receiving Program Change messages to change pattern is PRG CHANGE in the CONTROL > CONTROL IN menu in the active global slot. It allows you to choose the MIDI channel for receipt of PC messages. The relevant instructions are given on page 93 of the current version of the manual. That should enable you to do what you want.

PeterHanes · 2015-02-23T01:59:22.000Z

""F.U.N.K.Y"":

…

now the question is if there is a possibility to merge the songstructures i’ve already made. maybe in a softwareeditor via a sysexdump? or another way? because of the rather complex/long songstructures i use, it would otherwise take alot of work on a rather little screen to recreate what i’ve already done once…

Another way would be to be able to load songs via midi-cc or sysex; via an external midi controller…

…

The manuals for the MM and MD give the SysEx messages for saving and loading songs but not the detailed data formats. A few intrepid developers have probably figured out the formats. With that information, a good programmer would be able to make software to merge songs on these machines.
As stated, any controller that can send the applicable SysEx strings can control loading of individual songs on these two instruments.

Robbie · 2015-02-23T02:46:58.000Z

Thanks for your reply. I am running version 1.32b.

Next to PRG CHANGE in the CONTROL IN menu, I have selected BASE. It still doesn’t receive program changes from the MPC. It has no problem receiving note data whether from the sequencer or the pads, track mutes via CC, tempo changes, transport signals, all work fine.

I don’t know the MPC very well, so it could be something on that end, but I’ve shuffled through every menu and scoured the manual and still can’t find anything that’s causing this.

I’m about to go from scratching my head to gritting my teeth. :-/

PeterHanes · 2015-02-23T13:48:49.000Z

""Robbie"":

Thanks for your reply. I am running version 1.32b.

Next to PRG CHANGE in the CONTROL IN menu, I have selected BASE. It still doesn’t receive program changes from the MPC. It has no problem receiving note data whether from the sequencer or the pads, track mutes via CC, tempo changes, transport signals, all work fine.

I don’t know the MPC very well, so it could be something on that end, but I’ve shuffled through every menu and scoured the manual and still can’t find anything that’s causing this.

I’m about to go from scratching my head to gritting my teeth. :-/

I’m sure that you have already ensured that the transmit channel of your MPC matches the number of the Base Channel on the MM.

I don’t have an MPC 1000, but on at least some of the MPCs there is a setting called something like “Transmit program changes in this track (YES/NO)” that you would clearly need to set appropriately.

Robbie · 2015-02-23T14:19:32.000Z

I couldn’t find anything about sending program changes per track. Now that I think of it, I couldn’t find anything about PC send parameters at all. The MPC only seems to care about how it receives program changes.

A little troubleshooting this morning confirmed that this is definitely on the MPC side, as I was successfully sending all kinds of other midi data to a simpler synth and it responded perfectly to everything except the program changes. Hopefully this will just iron itself out when I install JJOS.

Thanks so much for your help.

PeterHanes · 2015-02-23T14:45:47.000Z

""Robbie"":

I couldn’t find anything about sending program changes per track. Now that I think of it, I couldn’t find anything about PC send parameters at all. The MPC only seems to care about how it receives program changes.

A little troubleshooting this morning confirmed that this is definitely on the MPC side, as I was successfully sending all kinds of other midi data to a simpler synth and it responded perfectly to everything except the program changes. Hopefully this will just iron itself out when I install JJOS.

Thanks so much for your help.

I downloaded the Akai manual for the MPC 1000. Pages 61 to 62 have the following:

Pressing the [WINDOW] key in the Pgm field brings up the Program window. In the Program window, you can edit the setting for the selected program.

…

You can switch the programs assigned to a track within the sequence by setting the program change numbers in each program. You do not have to set the program change numbers if you do not need to switch the programs .

…

If a track has a program change event with the same number set in this field, the MPC1000 switches the program at the event while playing back the sequence. If you do not wish to switch the program during the playback, set this field to OFF.

Did you set that field to ‘OFF’?

Robbie · 2015-02-23T15:18:43.000Z

It seems like that has to do with changing the program number of the internal program on the MPC and would not have an effect on program changes that are intended to be sent out to other devices via MIDI. But for what it’s worth, I’ve tried it both ways just to see.

I haven’t tried to sequence program changes with internal programs yet. Let me give that a try and see if that helps find where the breakdown is.

edit Well, that works fine. Entering a sequence using internal sounds of the MPC and then punching in a program change works. Now I just have to figure out why it will not send program changes out.

happiest edit of the day I received my CF card in the mail today so I was able to load JJOS free (which I think will suit me fine for now) and now program changes go through with the greatest of ease. I think I am going to love this combination.