MC-707 vs MPC Live II

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

Sorry to be “that guy” who keeps asking these questions.

As the flip side to my other discussion about buying a supporting synth to some of my basic grooveboxes I’m also considering the option of a more powerful “All in one” box (Enough polyphony / timbres for a whole track, synths and samples).

The target is for a holiday that’s starting in one weeks time (So Deluge for example is not an option as I wouldn’t be able to get one in time)

Currently I’m thinking an MC-707 as it’s the closest thing to a “Circuit Pro” (which I like a lot), with a possible option of an MPC Live II.

I should add I want to use it for writing and inspiration and then finishing tracks in a DAW. LIve performance is not required.

MPC looks like an amazing box, but it also seems so much like a DAW that I might as well use Bitwig.

Would be interested to hear preferences or opinions.

BTW I already know I’m not interested in any Elektron boxes as an alternative except perhaps an Octatrack, but I expect I won’t have the time / patience to learn it.

#2

I dealt with the same dilemma in the last weeks, to buy something cool to bring with me in vacation, but that could be useful in the studio as well.

I was set on the Mc-101, but the lack of depth in managing patches and the limited audio I/O pushed me towards its bigger brother.

I evaluated also the MPCs, but in the end I thought that their workflow wouldn’t be so inspiring, as I am mostly a simple xox sequencer guy, and not interested in hip-hop and sample chops based music, although the MC can cover that ground too, but I guess the MPCs are kings for that.

The DAW integration of the MCs seems pretty nice, as you can send multitrack via USB, so to easily expand/refine a sketched idea laid down into the machine.

Another selling point for me was the sound banks included in the machines, as you’ve almost the entire Roland history in a box, where the MPCs to me felt more sample oriented, but the multisampled instruments and synths included seems to be pretty good sounding tho.

Also, the MCs could cover the “pure sound module” role more easily than the MPCs as far as I know, and having a standalone midi sequencer in my workflow that was another point for the Rolands.

Now after a couple of jams with 707 I could say that I’m quite happy with the purchase.

I had to figure out how to use it like a proper synth, and that was not very straightforward, but once I assigned some midi cc to either onboard/outboard knobs, routing the 4 assignable syscontrols to sensible stuff into sound patches I achieved to mangle sounds in a live performance scenario in a fun way. But that’s not your use case I guess.

Anyway, I think it’s down to your taste and your workflow to choose between the two, but they’re both great capable machines, so I think you’ll have fun in both cases.

If you’ve got more specific questions on the 707 I’ll be happy to help

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#3

if you’re primary goal is sampling or straight tracking and then mangling what you’ve tracked or sampled I go with the mpc

if your primary goal is to have a roland sound library under your thumbs I’d go with the mc-707

the mpc is easier/ more intuitive to use than a 707, and easier to make full arrangements on as well

the 707 is more esoteric/ rigid

almost forgot, neither feel like bitwig at all

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#4

Hey, from your threads here and on the fretboard forum I think we have been on a similar ‘groovebox journey’ - and are fast realising there is no perfect answer!!

I am assuming travel constraints are not an issue for this holiday… the MPC live 2 is portable in one way (speaker and battery) but not in others-it’s pretty bulky and very heavy!! Not an issue if you are driving or taking it in a case as the sole piece of hand luggage though.

I’ve owned both of these devices so am in a decent position to comment.

MC 707 - the synths sound fantastic and I love the faders (I’m a die hard TR8S user so it felt familiar). The assignable knobs per track were also a nice feature. It is certainly a versatile unit.

Cons-I really didn’t get on with the pads and felt it was difficult to play things in (MPC, Circuits, Maschine pads all feel a different league to me (ymmv)). I felt that the ‘menu diving’ was a little tedious and whilst the synth engine is deep, it is not the easiest device to edit things on-not impossible but not quick. Sampling was a bit of an effort, and I didn’t think the drum sounds were anywhere near the quality of the ACB sounds in the TR8S. In the end, despite it sounding great (synth wise), the workflow just didn’t click with me - it felt clunky and cumbersome and so I moved it on.

MPC live 2. Quirky workflow if you are not familiar with the MPC ecosystem but actually soon became quite familiar. Sampling was a breeze and really flexible. Pads and build quality were top notch, and the built in speaker and battery were more useful than I thought they would be.

Cons-it’s bulky and pretty heavy. The touchscreen is not the best (but there are shortcut workarounds), the plugin synths are ok, but I didn’t think they were as good sounding as the 707 and the editing was a bit hit and miss-I think it works best as a preset/romper device-though browsing sounds soon became a chore. It felt like it was good for straight 4/4 stuff but harder to move into ‘weirder’ spaces if that is your thing. I also felt there was a bit too much reliance on the big screen which in the end meant I fell out with using it and moved it on. Also, having also used the force, the lack of macros made it feel a little inflexible to me. It is a great box for creating tracks though if you can deal with its quirks and limitations.

If I was to re-buy either it would be the MPC live 2.

However there are a couple of other options I would consider that I think are superior.

Polyend tracker-if you click with it it is a great device for making full tracks (although limited in terms of overall track/voice number) it’s portable, great fun to jam on, and much cheaper than the other options. I think it’s a great tool. I would still own it if I could get on with the screen (oddly it seemed to trigger my motion sickness!!!))

Maschine plus. This unit gets a lot of stick, but I think it is a little unfair. The inbuilt sounds are amazing and I think have the edge over the MPC and 707. Editing is a little easier as well. The pads and build quality are fantastic, the double screen is useful without ever feeling too intrusive and thankfully not a touchscreen. Sampling is great, and I love the song and ideas mode-a great way to build up tracks.

I personally have not suffered from issues with CPU or crashes in my experience with the unit (running 1/2 kits and a few synths (3/4)plus sequences tended to have CPU at 70-80%, and have never seen higher than 87%. It also benefits from being able to link with PC, but I’ve never bothered, works well for me standalone.

Will I keep it, not sure-I did list it for sale here (and on the fretboard I think) a few weeks ago, but after coming back from holiday I am on the fence about selling it. It does everything so well, but ironically the issue for me is that I don’t make full tracks and basically just want to perform and jam (the opposite to you I think!) and I’m not sure if it best suited to that. Not to plug my sale in an unrelated thread, but let me know if you decide that M+ could be for you and we can discuss!

Good luck and hope you get sorted and have a productive holiday!!

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#5

I haven’t used a Live but can certainly compare the 707 and MPC One (and have on several occasions).

The 707 has a fantastic library of sounds, solid TR sequencing, an interesting clips mechanism, nice hands-on controls and useful, flexible I/O options.

The MPC completely demolishes the 707 as a sampler, and as a non-TR sequencer. It has some interesting and varied onboard synths, a really flexible and capable FX system and excellent MIDI features. The touch screen is often pitched as a Marmite feature, but unless you have screenophobia or huge leathery fingers you’ll probably find it very useful in practice - certainly for sample editing, and it functions nicely as a Kaoss Pad surrogate.

If I was interested in sampling, I’d go with the MPC without a second’s hesitation. If TR sequencing and a library of classic sounds are important, the 707 has something to offer (the MPC is also stuffed with sounds and does step sequence, but Roland have TR-REC in the bag).

Internal sounds aside from sampling - the 707 has a pretty deep engine that requires a bit of menu-diving, but nothing too onerous, and mixes PCM and virtual analogue, with some interesting options tucked away. The MPC relies on virtual devices with their own UI, which the flexibility of the screen means are very hands-on and easy to tweak.

One nice feature of the 707 is you get three assignable knobs per channel, whereas the MPC has four assignable knobs in total - you can have multiple banks, but there are only four physical knobs. The touchscreen does compensate for this, but the instant access to three controls plus a fader on the 707 is really nice.

In terms of external integration, it depends on your goals and setup. The MPC has the edge in terms of MIDI control and deeper sequencing, the 707 has better I/O and can function as a little four-channel mixer and FX unit.

If some Nazis came and said one of them had to die then realistically it’d be the 707, but I’d bear a grudge.

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#6

I’m not too worried with it being like Bitwig as I want it for a different vibe.

Synth is probably the most important part as I have a Tracker for purely sample mangling.

#7

if i was going on holiday I’d take my fav synths and autosample them with the mpc, nothing like having a sketch pad that translates seamlessly to the sounds that you actually wanna use, and if I was traveling light as possible I’d go with the mpc one, smaller but just as much power as the live 2…
only thing I’d add to what clark said was that with the mpc you can have individual bpm per pattern, individual time signature per pattern, and individual track lengths in your patterns… and the price you can pick up an mpc one is ridiculous.

#8

I have a Polyend Tracker and I absolutely love it!
I’m looking for something with some Synth options (especially polyphonic) as I’m trying to learn a bit more about sound design

I’ve discounted the M+ just because a few people seem to write it off as a buggy mess which easily runs out of CPU, but maybe it deserves a look.

#9

Brilliant write up!

I think synths are a bit more important for me as I already have (and love) the Tracker, but I do really love sampling and I’ve never tried the legendary Akai MPC workflow so it is tempting.

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#10

MPC is very DAW like, definitely has its own thing going on though, and actually as a DAW is very underpowered compared to even a 5 year old laptop - still for my needs it is enough.

707 is IMHO a bit quicker to use for performance stuff, the surface lends itself well to improvising structure, tweaking etc.

I think 707 sounds better, better fx.

MPC is very good for sampling, the touchscreen though is nowhere near as good as even an old ipad, I’d be happier using a mouse of trackball TBH but it is not possible AFAIK.

707 is probably a bit easier to learn if you have never used a MPC.

I’d suggest to try the free MPC Beats software, it will give you a good idea if you will like the MPC hardware, you can use keyboard shortcuts. I ended up buying a MPC after using MPC Beats.

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#11

I’ve enjoyed following your ups and downs chief - and I’m on a similar journey to you and @Clarke_111 so it’s been interesting to see. I presume we’ll all end up with the same gear in the end. :joy: I’m in a similar boat (I think) to yourself as I’ve been feeling my way into hardware; while also trying to find a balance between stretching myself and also not giving myself too much to do. BTW I also completely get the appeal of an “everything box.”

It looks to me (non-owner to be clear) that the 707 could replace pretty much all your gear as an all in one box, with the usual caveat that it has pros and cons like any other machine; so you’d win some and lose some, especially some of the quirky aspects of the Tracker and how it processes samples. But that said, it looks like a full blown studio with an emphasis on live performance vs some of the other Roland options.

The 101 is a potential compact option, but that doesn’t give you the studio in a box. I only say that knowing the gear you currently own. If you added the 101, you’d have an additional 4 tracks of (limited) synth sounds from the Roland library. Or you could use those tracks for chromatic samples/resampling that (from what I’ve seen) operate a bit like the Circuit Rhythm does (polyphony, stutter effects and the like.) So that would give you 2x synth, 4x drum tracks (Tracks), 8x sample tracks (Tracker) PLUS 4x sample or synth tracks to use for samples, loops or Roland patches - that’s 18 total tracks to play with, albeit a bit more modular than one box to carry around.

Out of interest, is the MPC One off the table? All of these units are a little bigger than some of the portable stuff out there but that one is about £300 cheaper than the Live II? And then (curveball) sitting somewhere between all of these in terms of price, features and portability - is the Verselab any good? I haven’t read up on it properly, and I assume it loses some of the MC series features, but it also shoots for that “simplified DAW in a box” thing. Even without owning the machines it does seem like the Roland’s are aimed more at the synth side of things and the MPCs have their legendary sampling chops at their core.

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#12

Yeah, I think that view of the M+ is harsh. I have had it for a few months and owned the MPC live 2 for the same time period and the MPC crashed more (in fact I don’t recall the Maschine actually crashing at all). Likewise I have never had any CPU issues, but admittedly I may use it differently to others.

I guess maybe if you were building an hour long set with lots and lots of different sounds it might be an issue-and given a big part of its sales pitch was around performance, that is a issue, but for knocking out jams, sketching tracks and using as a great sounding all in one box for me it trumps the MPC. I wouldn’t discount it, certainly at the price some are going for used.

The latest boiler room set with Fred again convinced me I should hold onto it for a bit which is why I’ve not actively been looking to sell.

#13

Well, the 707 is definitely capable, but largely follows the subtractive synthesis route. The MPC is a bit more interesting with some of the wavetable models in Hype, and optionally the FM plugin - and you also get the electric piano instrument and multiple subtractive options (Odyssey is great), as well as the drum synths. It’s certainly no slouch in the synth department, and being able to resample them easily and extensively is a big plus.

But if you love sampling, you’ll surely love the MPC even if you never touch the synths. You can ignore the DAW elements if you prefer - the piano roll isn’t mandatory, and there are plenty of other ways to arrange and edit things (clip programs, the looper, playing patterns live, the event list, audio tracks…).

I don’t like to disparage the 707, which is a fantastic groovebox and great fun to use - it just has several areas where the development of the MPC has left it looking a little underpowered.

Either one makes a great complement to the Tracker, which does things sufficiently differently to hold its own.

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#14

I’m gonna pipe up on the MPC is like DAW rhetoric again… it’s mad how this always seems to be presented as a negative, like ‘DAW’ is a dirty word… the MPC is about as close to a dawless DAW as you can get, but it’s immensely powerful compared to most hardware competition.
It’s way more expansive than the MC707 when it comes to making tracks/music.
And, yes you can get a laptop and a DAW, but the pads, the audio I/O, the hands on control is all a big part of the modern MPC.

So, I wouldn’t let the DAW comparisons put you off the MPC… in use, it’s nothing like working on a laptop or an iPad.
The MPC touchscreen isn’t the greatest, but you don’t notice it that much when you get into it’s workflow. The qwerty keyboard for naming is a ball ache.

@NickD put it well, if you’re into synths and the TR sequencing, 707 is the one.

If you’re into sampling, and audio recording, the MPC is the way to go.

If you’re feeling really outlandish, an MC707 alongside an MPC would make a powerful pair.

I have both units.

MC707 is primarily an ideas generator and a sound module for me.

MPC is my main Ableton alternative for making music.

Both are cool.

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#15

That was not my intention - it IS my DAW, I don’t use a computer DAW :wink: But compared to a computer DAW is almost laughably ‘underpowered” however it does not have all the hassle of a computer DAW - config, latency, security patches, updates, option paralysis, driver conflicts, reliance on a desktop operating system etc etc.

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#16

I’m not considering it as a negative and previously it would have been a positive as I had no success with Reaper, Ableton, or FL Studio as a DAW that I wanted to spend significant time making music with, however I am now quite happy with Bitwig so I’m really looking for boxes which are fun and help me get started and generate ideas rather than be a DAW in a box.

The Tracker does that for me, but it’s very samply with limited sound design options.

The Circuit Tracks is super fun to jam with, but I quickly run out of tracks unless I want to end up in a spaghetti of wires which though it looks cool on instagram it turns out I don’t really enjoy.

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#17

I wasn’t aiming that at you personally @darenager, more the general anti-DAW sentiment that exists, and how that’s often presented to people about the MPC before they’ve tried it out for themselves…

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#18

I have the MPC Live 2 and the MC-101, haven’t tried the 707 but I’m familiar with the differences between the 101 and 707.

One key question you have to ask yourself is: are you looking to finish full songs with the attention to details you’d expect from a proper DAW? Or are you more into creating song embryos that you then finish up on the computer - or are you perhaps into live jamming?

Based on my experience, the MPC is a production center (hence the name!), and the Roland is more of a traditional groovebox. You’ll get a lot farther in your production on the MPC. I’ve made albums worth of music on it by now and it is a pure pleasure to use.

The MC-101, I barely touch, but that’s partially due to the fact that it has limited access to the synth engine, which is a problem the 707 doesn’t have. But still, when comparing the 707 vs the MPC, it’s easy to see which one is way more powerful:

  • Number of tracks - MPC: 128 / Roland: 8
  • Number of automation lanes - MPC: virtually limitless / Roland: 4 per track
  • Sequencer - MPC: full-blown piano roll, live recording, poor step sequencer / Roland: live recording, good step sequencer
  • Number of different built-in synths - MPC: 5-8 / Roland: 1(*)
  • Number of effects: similar, arguably similar qualities (perhaps a slight edge on the 707)

(*) The synth comparison deserves commenting. Roland’s Zencore is great and sounds really good in my ears. But the MPC is more than enough for most people, and actually offers a lot of variety. Hype offers some interesting modes that approaches the Zencore (including limited FM, decent wavetables and sample + osc modes), the ARP Odyssey is a classic that is loved by many, and then there’s plenty of other synthts there too, including drum synthesis. With all this said, there’s something uniquely lush about Roland Zencore. Zencore also has more range. For example, it has (sampled) sound presets for acoustic instruments like flute, guitar, oboe, harmonica, etc etc. The MPC is more in the electronic synthesizer territory. Then again, the MPC can sample and create keygroups from just about anything, so it depends on what kind of sounds you already have access to. But if you’re desperately looking for that perfect saxophone preset, the 707 is your friend. In the end, I had to choose purely between the synth engines available, I’d pick the MC-707 over the MPC.

Overall, my clear choice is the MPC Live 2 though. It offers so much playability with its excellent pads, scales & chords modes, excellent arpeggiator, and live jamming possibilities that it’s more of an instrument to me than a DAW. Yet, it also has nearly all the powers of a proper DAW, so when you’re done jamming and messing around, you actually have the capabilities to finish the track too. This is where the MPC excels, really. If I had to choose between the two, I would have picked the MPC even if it were twice as expensive as the MC-707. But that’s just me. :slight_smile:

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#19

Had an MPC One and a 707, both are great machines
.
I did not think that they worked well together so decided to let one go.

I chose to keep the 707 because it is a better audio interface (even replaced my RME Babyface), the extra analogue inputs and more convenient for step sequencing (though the MPC sequencer is way more powerful though when I need that sort of thing I use a DAW).

At the time I didn’t have anything that could take advantage of the MPC’s direct USB connectivity.

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#20

As an owner of both, I find either option is a competent groovebox, but with different pros and cons. The MC-707 has a more limited set of features, but the sound engine is amazing. I mostly use it as a traditional songwriting sketch pad, and later transfer the tracks to a DAW for adding vocals, guitars, etc. It is very similar to a keyboard workstation, but in a groovebox enclosure, in my humble opinion.

The MPC offers more in the way of tracks and sampling options. The ability to expand the inputs and outputs, via a USB class compliant audio interface, is terrific. The touch screen workflow is hit or miss, depending on the user. FWIW, I hate it. Its internal sounds are okay, and less diverse. That said, I primarily use the MPC for sequencing external synths and arranging full songs in a Techno-centric DAW-less setup.

If I had to select one of them, the MPC would be my choice to keep in the studio. However, depending on a person’s use case, I can easily understand someone siding with the MC-707.

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