Maximizing Sequencers

Accent · 2014-09-25T06:37:06.000Z

One thing I haven’t worked out since getting my Octatrack is the best way to utilize the sequencers amongst the OG trinity. I’m in the process of reorganizing my studio and I’d like to sort this out, so maybe you fine folks can give me some insight.

I’m currently using a midi patchbay (Emagic Unitor 8) to route midi data to the rest of my synths and effects. I have a midi keyboard that I use to send notes and control messages to the rest of my gear. I have an output going to the OT in, and the OT thru is connected to the Monomachine in. Both devices have their midi outs connected to the inputs on the patchbay, so I can sequence the rest of my gear from whichever one I choose on a dedicated midi channel, and play from my keyboard. I also have the Machinedrum receiving clock and transport via the Monomachine’s thru. I use the autochannel on the OT and MNM in order to play tracks at will.

The problem is that I potentially have 30 midi sequencer tracks that I could use, but I can’t figure out how to utilize them without interfering with everything else. If I use midi track 1 on the OT and try to play a synth set to that channel, I also trigger the first track on the Monomachine. This is less of a problem with the MD since you can set it to base, but I don’t think such an option exists on the Mono, and even if it did I can’t suss out how I would be able to still play it externally.

Basically, it would be ideal if I could utilize the different sequencers amongst the machines to control instruments or effects at will, depending on their strengths, and to use my controller keyboard to play to/through my Elektron gear as well. Maybe this isn’t entirely possible, but surely there is some way I which I can sequence different things from the different sequencers than in my current configuration. Any thoughts?

PeterHanes · 2014-09-25T14:02:08.000Z

""Accent"":

One thing I haven’t worked out since getting my Octatrack is the best way to utilize the sequencers amongst the OG trinity. I’m in the process of reorganizing my studio and I’d like to sort this out, so maybe you fine folks can give me some insight.

I’m currently using a midi patchbay (Emagic Unitor 8) to route midi data to the rest of my synths and effects. I have a midi keyboard that I use to send notes and control messages to the rest of my gear. I have an output going to the OT in, and the OT thru is connected to the Monomachine in. Both devices have their midi outs connected to the inputs on the patchbay, so I can sequence the rest of my gear from whichever one I choose on a dedicated midi channel, and play from my keyboard. I also have the Machinedrum receiving clock and transport via the Monomachine’s thru. I use the autochannel on the OT and MNM in order to play tracks at will.

The problem is that I potentially have 30 midi sequencer tracks that I could use, but I can’t figure out how to utilize them without interfering with everything else. If I use midi track 1 on the OT and try to play a synth set to that channel, I also trigger the first track on the Monomachine. This is less of a problem with the MD since you can set it to base, but I don’t think such an option exists on the Mono, and even if it did I can’t suss out how I would be able to still play it externally.

Basically, it would be ideal if I could utilize the different sequencers amongst the machines to control instruments or effects at will, depending on their strengths, and to use my controller keyboard to play to/through my Elektron gear as well. Maybe this isn’t entirely possible, but surely there is some way I which I can sequence different things from the different sequencers than in my current configuration. Any thoughts?

On a trivial note, you CAN make adjustments to the MIDI configuration of the MM in its CONTROL>MIDI CHANLS menu, and the 8 Global slots allow you to have a different configuration for each typical set-up of your gear.

My set-up is not dissimilar to yours in its complexity. I generally find it conceptually and practically easiest to have each Elektron machine sequence its own sounds, with the only external MIDI received being Tempo and Program Change from the OT or from another sequencer altogether.

To maximise flexibility, you might consider putting the MM and MD on the other side of the Unitor8 from the OT - just consider them as other synths to be controlled most of the time but also used as sequencers for special purposes. So one possibility would be KBD Out to OT In, OT Out to Unitor In, OT Thru to another Unitor In, and than Ins and Outs from all the other gear to the Unitor.

I think that a better option would be KBD Out to a Unitor In, then each other unit connected with In and Out to a port on the Unitor.
I believe that the Unitor8 has 32 different configurations that you could switch between to select a different set-up. Obviously, you would need to keep note of which global settings were required for each Elektron and other synth to match the Unitor configuration.

How many other MIDI instruments do you have?

Accent · 2014-09-25T23:59:38.000Z

Peter, thank you for your reply. I only use the internal sequencers of the Elektrons to sequence themselves (ie. I don’t sequence the Mono from the OT or anything like that). They only receive clock from the OT as master.

I more or less have things set up like you suggested, keyboard out (and in) to the Unitor, and at least an out to all of my instruments. So my inputs into the patchbay are from the OT, MNM, and X-Station (controller keyboard), outputs go to the OT, Kawai XD-5 and K4R, Yamaha TX81Z, Alpha Juno, X-Station. X-Station out to the OT in (via the Unitor), OT out to the Unitor, OT thru to the MNM in, and the MNM thru to the MDUW in. I’ve also got a KP3 connected to the thru of the X-Station so I can sequence it from either the OT or Mono, and the X-Station also acts as my iPad audio and midi I/O via the USB port. In addition, I’ve got a Roland RSP-550 and a Digitech Studio Quad 4 effects units, which can receive CCs. I don’t expect my collection to stop here either, so it would be nice to figure this out to expand in the future.

Ideally, I’d like to be able to sequence whatever from whatever, so I could (as an example) sequence all the hardware synths from the OT, use all 6 midi tracks from the Mono to sequence different iPad synths, and use a couple of midi machines on the MDUW to sequence my effects, but have the flexibility to switch things up at will because maybe it would be better to use the OTs microtiming for an iOS synth or use the Mono’s sequencer to assign an LFO to program change for an external effect…and be able to use one keyboard to play everything. Actually, my setup is sort of like this now, but I run into complications like if I’ve got the TX81Z on channel 1, playing it via the X-Station also triggers the first audio track on the Mono. There may be no way to avoid that, but I still can’t help but wonder if there is a better way so I could use all of the audio and midi tracks at my disposal.
I’m probably asking for the moon, aren’t I?

PeterHanes · 2014-09-26T13:16:09.000Z

""Accent"":

Peter, thank you for your reply. I only use the internal sequencers of the Elektrons to sequence themselves (ie. I don’t sequence the Mono from the OT or anything like that). They only receive clock from the OT as master.

I more or less have things set up like you suggested, keyboard out (and in) to the Unitor, and at least an out to all of my instruments. So my inputs into the patchbay are from the OT, MNM, and X-Station (controller keyboard), outputs go to the OT, Kawai XD-5 and K4R, Yamaha TX81Z, Alpha Juno, X-Station. X-Station out to the OT in (via the Unitor), OT out to the Unitor, OT thru to the MNM in, and the MNM thru to the MDUW in. I’ve also got a KP3 connected to the thru of the X-Station so I can sequence it from either the OT or Mono, and the X-Station also acts as my iPad audio and midi I/O via the USB port. In addition, I’ve got a Roland RSP-550 and a Digitech Studio Quad 4 effects units, which can receive CCs. I don’t expect my collection to stop here either, so it would be nice to figure this out to expand in the future.

Ideally, I’d like to be able to sequence whatever from whatever, so I could (as an example) sequence all the hardware synths from the OT, use all 6 midi tracks from the Mono to sequence different iPad synths, and use a couple of midi machines on the MDUW to sequence my effects, but have the flexibility to switch things up at will because maybe it would be better to use the OTs microtiming for an iOS synth or use the Mono’s sequencer to assign an LFO to program change for an external effect…and be able to use one keyboard to play everything. Actually, my setup is sort of like this now, but I run into complications like if I’ve got the TX81Z on channel 1, playing it via the X-Station also triggers the first audio track on the Mono. There may be no way to avoid that, but I still can’t help but wonder if there is a better way so I could use all of the audio and midi tracks at my disposal.
I’m probably asking for the moon, aren’t I?

In fact, it should be RELATIVELY simple to set up a suitable configuration that does roughly what you want.

If the Elektron units are not being sequenced by each other, you can switch off their response to incoming MIDI (except clock) in the Project or Global settings menus.

Also, you don’t have too much extra kit, and most of the units only require one MIDI channel each. You could almost chain it all on one MIDI port of the Unitor but instead, for maximum flexibility with moderate amounts of repatching of the Unitor, here is what I suggest for MIDI connections:

XS Out to OT In for XS to play into the OT sequencer.
OT Out to MM In for OT sequencer to control MM tempo.

MM Out to Unitor In2 for MM sequencer to control other gear if desired.
MM Thru to MD In for OT sequencer to control MD tempo.

MD Out to Unitor In3 for MD sequencer to control other gear if desired.
MD Thru to Unitor In4 for OT sequencer to control other gear if desired.

Unitor Out1 to XS In for control of XS and iPad if desired.

[Optional: OT Thru to Unitor In1 can be connected later for other purposes if desired.]

Unitor In/Out5 to AJ Out/In.
Set AJ to channel 1.

Unitor In/Out6 to TX Out/In.
Set TX to use channels 2-6.

Unitor In/Out7 to K4R Out/In.
Set K4R Multi & Drum to use channels 7-12.

Unitor Out8 to XD5 In.
Set XD5 to channel 13.

XD5 Thru to SQ In.
Set SQ to channel 14.

SQ Thru to RSP In.
Set RSP to channel 15.

RSP Out/Thru to KP3 In.
Set KP3 to channel 16.

You would have the choice of taking MIDI Out from one of XD5, SQ, RSP, or KP3 back into Unitor In8 as needed.

This way you get to send output from OT, MM, or MD anywhere you like because you have each of their MIDI outputs connected to all other Unitor ports; you can select which instrument to send to simply by selecting MIDI channel.

Before you start, you might prefer to use more channels on either TX81Z or K4R which would require either sacrificing a channel on one of the other units or setting up a new configuration for the Unitor using appropriate internal routing.

You could even use a channel for the Unitor itself so that you could control its internal configuration from one of the sequencers.

When you add more gear, you can chain the new items to the gear on the existing ports, although that will mean that you might need to: reduce channels used for existing gear, do more patching inside the Unitor, or audio mute output from gear that runs on the same channel.

jonah · 2014-09-26T19:09:53.000Z

unitors are cheap get a 2nd one. doing thru with anything that sequences/sends midi out is a pain. you should be able to set all your gear to respond to different midi channels and with 16 in/outs you have an easy (well, easier ) mental map of all 16 midi channels.

oth, if stuff is only going to receive midi and you never want to use the learn feature on the octatrack you could try a long midi thru chain or 2 (or 3 or 4!). some (or a lot! ) of latency might happen depending on how much data you are sending. you could start with a long one and then break it down.

with your keyboard can you set the midi channel on it? you could try setting the auto channel on the elektron boxes to different midi channels and then switch the channel on the keyboard to choose which sequencer to record into. whatever midi sequencer track that is active to will get sent out to whatever is on that channel set on the midi track. (you might not want to connect anything to the midi input of the keyboard)

multi-maps on the md/mnm are fun.

unitor will take whatever it gets clock and transport from 1st and ignore the rest. i find that manually setting the tempos and only doing transport sync very useful/flexible and gives you a lot more opportunity to use the sequencers at once.

turn off program change stuff wherever you can to start with and then turn it back on one box at a time. everything works differently. in general i’d say after you get your keyboard and 3 elektron boxes going just test 1 thing at a time.

imo if things are really screwing up it’s generally better to pull out all the cables from the patch bay and start fresh than to try and fix it. every time you re-do it you get faster and it gets easier next time. so don’t get too discouraged. (and put labels on your midi cords! at least just to distinguish in + out. i really wish i had done that the 1st time )

probably the worst part is i come up with cool ideas while wiring it up and start using stuff then when i go back to wiring it i forget what was going on.

ps. if you aren’t using all the md outs you can send the gnd machine into the unitor switch in for some fun.

Accent · 2015-04-11T07:09:22.000Z

Hi all, I’m reviving this as my gear has changed somewhat and I still haven’t found an ideal setup.

First off, thanks to Peter Hanes and Jonah for their detailed responses. They gave me a lot of food for thought, and I made some important changes to my setup.

Here’s where I’m at now:

Instruments:
OT (as main hub/sequencer/clock/transport)
Monomachine
Machinedrum
Novation X-Station (as a controller/keyboard/iOS audio/midi interface)
Yamaha RM50
Roland R-8M
Bass Station II
Alpha Juno
Kawai XD-5
Kawai K4R
Yamaha TX81Z
Yamaha TX7

Effects:
Korg KP3 (this gets a fair amount of use and currently gets midi from the XS thru)
Roland RSP-550
Digitech Studio Quad 4

Midi Patchbays/Thru:
Emagic Unitor8 MKII
Emagic AMT8

Other:
Kawai MM-16 (for programming my Kawai gear)
Griffin Studio Connect (alternate iOS audio/midi interface)

Currently, all the Elektron devices use their own internal sequencers. Ideally, I’d like to use the 16 sequencer tracks of the MDUW to control the RM50 and R-8M (either individually or layered together), the Mono to control the more dedicated synths, and the OT to be able to jump in and do things whenever one of the other sequencers won’t suffice. With what I have, I don’t see a great way to be able to utilize all 30 potential tracks for midi sequencing. I don’t believe there is any way to filter the midi messages sent to the Emagic units from the third party software I’ve been using (http://www.potm.org/software/Unitor/ …if there are better alternatives, please tell me, as I’ve found this software to be problematic. I’ve also got a Unitor 8 MKI sitting around that appears to be useless since I can’t program it from the Preference Pane).

Really hoping there is an ideal way to utilize everything on the fly. I see some insane studios and know there has to be a better way to utilize my multitimbral gear beyond 16 channels, especially in an a Elektron setup, but haven’t quite grokked how to do it yet.

EDIT: a couple notes.

I don’t necessarily need to use the XD-5, K4R, TX81Z, or TX7 in any multitimbral mode. Having the option would be nice, but it’s really not essential.

Bonus points to any module that responds to CC, like the RM50, as you can get freaky with parameter locks. Functionality is key, especially with Elektron. Heavy tweaking goes to the front of the line, but is still secondary to sound design and control-I want channels over interface, as I use a lot of old gear.

Seriously. There has to be some Trinity mode that lets you get serious with mad sequencing.

Geneoart · 2015-04-11T07:52:17.000Z

you can make use of your auto channels… I made a ghetto diagram I hope it makes sense.

                                                                  >synth 1
                                                            m  >synth 2
                                                             i    >synth 3

midi keybord> OT auto ch 10 > d >synth 4
midi ch 10 i >synth 5
b >synth 6
o >MnM auto ch 7 >synth 9
x >MD auto ch 8

have your OT midi tracks sequence synth 1-6 then keep track 7-8 empty. you’ll use those tracks as a passage for your midi keyboard to control the MnM and MD when the corresponding tracks are selected. the MnM can sequence synth 9. This set up gives you 8 internal OT tracks 6 OT midi tracks
6 internal MnM tracks plus 6 midi and the MD. All assessable by the master keyboard. make sure to turn off the internal channels of the MnM ad MD only auto channels are assigned.

Tenchi · 2015-04-11T10:44:27.000Z

That’s a nice solution Geneoart, i have a similar set up as Accents, but how would the ipad fit in for occasional sequencing duties?

Geneoart · 2015-04-11T13:57:42.000Z

""Tenchi"":

That’s a nice solution Geneoart, i have a similar set up as Accents, but how would the ipad fit in for occasional sequencing duties?

purhaps you could have synth 1 controlled by the iPad… You could insert the iPad after the midi box on the midi 1 port then synth 1. I’m not 100 percent sure how the midi is set up in the iPad. Is it midi in out thru or just midi in out?

Geneoart · 2015-04-11T14:44:08.000Z

The iPad complicates things for me because I’m not sure how good the midi clock is. If the clock is good and tight then iPad can be master clock and go in front of the OT. Then you’ll use the midi thru on the OT to control the synth you want the ipad to control. Thats a big if though!
Master midi clock is very important in big set ups. I cant vouch for ipad midi clock. I’ll guess its not the best. You want to keep daisy chains minimal and the set up as simple as possible. Midi can be very fustating especially when you daisy chain so keep that in mind.

DoingBusinessAs · 2015-04-11T20:23:22.000Z

Get a computer and plug your usb midi interface into it and use Ableton for all your midi routing. Seriously, I know it"s not “all hardware” but Ableton’s midi routing is easy and kicks ass, and you gain all sorts of cool abilities in the process.