No, in this case I refer to Short Term LUFS, as I am looking at the loud, ‘meaty’ parts of a track, where clipping and distortion can get critical.
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Thanks so much for al your input here! It’s very valuable to me 
Luckily I do own licenses for a variety of high quality software tools I’ve experimented with over the years so I can try different things until something works with the material.
I don’t want stupid loud personally but it’s nice to hear about some methods to get there if I run into somebody who wants that.
Do you have a website up for your mastering services?
I think it’s good to look at both but more so what @MichalHo said.
I’ll usually loop a heavy part of a track to get an idea of what the integrated and/or short term is at that point. Integrated across the whole track can be a bit skewed if you have a lot of long breaks and then some really heavy sections.
This is of course just to check where you fall for streaming services (or compared to similar music) and if you’ll have your volume turned down a lot or just a little by the streaming services. As the experienced Mastering Engineers (not me) in the thread have said, it’s more about doing what’s best for that particular track/song than following strict numbers on the meters.
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Thanks, hence my question. If you pick a particular part of a song, you have no idea how that will compare to the measurement taken by a streaming service. They might take another part of the track, or a shorter or longer region. Or the whole track?
I get that this is not an exact science, and just something to give you an indication, so I am not too worried about it. It just surprises me that some people can be so particular of the LUFS they go for (down to a decimal in some cases), when it is hardly an exact science.
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Thanks, I do have a domain name for Obsessed Audio, but it’s just a place holder with my logo right now. I just can’t seem to find time to finish it up, but I need to. I mostly post on my Facebook page.
I don’t mind answering questions at all or sharing ‘secrets’ (methods/workflow), so if anyone is curious about something, please let me know.
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I started a couple of tests because I also suffer a bit from this topic to get songs as loud as possible without much or audible quality or dynamic loss. Here’s a little demo I’m currently working on. Whether it is the best way to proceed is up to you, but my steps were the following with this project.
I let the finished loop run at its loudest point and on the master channel I put a limiter with an automatic LUFS limit, which automatically adjusts the volume according to my input. Which at -8 or -6 LUFS leads to an absolute override.
But then I adjust the volume and EQ settings for each individual channel (removing lows, clearing mids) and, if necessary, with the help of compression (catching highs). Find the right kick that sounds good with the volume and provides enough pressure. If at the end still not enough gain has been achieved, I softly clip the signal on the master channel before it is sent to the limiter. That mostly causes distortion, but that doesn’t have to sound bad in the chorus.
Automation could also be started here. In the quieter parts, lower the soft clipper and limiter and slowly up again in the refrain. I’m not a master and the track could certainly sound better. I just tried something on the subject and maybe it will help someone.
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Sounds pretty good (need to listen on better speakers)
So you’re essentially doing a “stem” master?
Also if it understand correctly, you’re automating your limiter input gain depending on the section of the track.
Seems like a good approach. Thanks for the input. I should honestly try to do more stem masters as well.
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I first had to look what “stem mastering” is. I had never heard before but that’s ok for a german.
(I only speak English here).
Yes, that’s what I prefer to do because of the control, unless I only have a stereo file of recorded hardware. Which is actually the case with 90% of my music.
They say stem mastering is the ultimate discipline, but I find it more difficult to make a stereo file sound really good that was badly recorded because, for example, you had done sound design a long time before and then expanded your loop into a song with tiered ears.
But I looked again over the loop above and was able to improve it a lot. A total of three different limiters and a lot of EQ and compression, maybe too much compression.
Yes exactly, I loop the loudest part of the song (most of the chorus, where all sounds come together) and tell the limiter to pull the threshold down until eg -6LUFS are reached.
And then it’s up to me to keep it sounding good that way. Exciting and a real challenge but my ears tells me at a maximum of -10 LUFS that is the end, don’t go any further! Recently I heard my favorite album from 1970 again and it didn’t scare me off to turn the volume all the way up. What a depth and dynamic! Yeah, ok, I know, that’s not the point. 
But comforts me when I’m frustrated.
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As a DJ, I kind of don’t even get the whole loudness war thing. My mixer channels have gain knobs and the mixer has plenty of head room…along with most sound systems. You don’t need to go crazy…I can make shit loud af on my end with a reasonably track lol.
Maybe more to do with streaming, ear buds, cheap bluetooth speakers?
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I think it comes from how technically deficient DJ’s tend to progress throughout the night.
Each track is pushed louder than the last one to have more impact. At some point you run out of headroom on the mixer and sound system.
At that point, the only way to sound louder is to have a louder master. If a DJ would just bring the levels back down and stay around the same peak levels we probably wouldn’t have this issue.
I’ve seen techno DJ’s who even mix with fhe EQ’s all max out, crazy stupid red everywhere…
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Lovely!
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Yea, it is true. I know DJs that mix like this. I don’t feel like the people that taught me ages ago were mixing like that. I mean, sure, sometimes I’ll bump up a track that is already meant to be a dramatic moment in my mix but then I always work the volume back down over the next couple mixes.
I feel like if DJ were maxing all the gain knobs and EQs I’d be walking as far away from that noise as fast as possible just on instinct.
Ohhh I’ve seen that with the maxed out faders, gain and eq too 
amateurs
I don’t know if I would automate the limiter though… That sounds like something you could do and totally ruin the dynamics of the track 
Personally I loop the loudest part and push the song to get to about 8 lufs or until it breaks down before getting to -8. Usually if it breaks down before 8, I’ve not done a good job on the mix stage and I need to get back. But I don’t mind minus 10 or minus 9 lufs. I have a set target, just a ballpark. I don’t care about integrated at all, the streaming platforms will just turn it down whatever they see fit, I don’t worry about that at all. I only care about my song having a healthy level, staying under -1dB true peak, and sounding good to me.