Firstly I apologise as I know there has been many similar discussions. I used search and found sp vs black box and some discussions on maschine + for live but hopefully ok to ask for my use case.
I have produced on a label with two other people and we have done lots of dj gigs but have some live gigs coming up. We have played live individually but want to start playing as a collective. The plan is one person with our tracks as stems in Ableton and playing live keys, another person will be playing guitar and myself triggering and layering samples. Our sound is chilled downbeat, balaeric, jazzy, dub type stuff. My plan is to have 16 samples per track that would be chords, vocals, strings etc and probably some spoken word for intros.
I was thinking the sp 404 mk2 is my best choice though I’m now considering the maschine plus also. I have the ep133 ko2 which I thought would work but soon as I add longer samples the memory fills quickly. I would like to trigger samples and if possible have some hands on access to fx. Nothing hugely complicated but something more interactive than just triggering the sample. I do like the pads on the maschine though the simplicity of the sp is a bonus.
Does anyone use one of these in a similar use case and has any advice? Pluses or negatives?
Again apologies if this has been discussed before and thanks for any help.
For what your describe the SP404mk2 sounds perfect. It’s so easy to set up, can have different, long stereo samples loaded across the pads, a different track per bank for simplicity and you have easy access to x2 fx buffers for live fx which you can quickly chop and change and play with live.
I have used Maschine + in the past as well and it’s a great groovebox. Much deeper than the SP404mk2, but for what you describe here I think it’s overkill and also more complicated than the 404 to get to the same point in terms of set up and in set use.
Obv if you want the device to do what you describe but would also like the etc built in synths, sounds and ability to make full tracks etc the Maschine + could do it all. And the pads do feel great! But for your specific use case I think the SP404 would be great, and half the price!
I don’t own either, but I have been considering my options to extend my Novation Circuit (tracks and rhythm) live setup and the thing that puts me off the 404 is having to remember all the shortcuts.
So my advice would be to see if there is anyone on YouTube already using the 404 in a way that you think will fit with your expected workflow.
The shortcuts can get cumbersome but only has you dig deeper in the 404.
That said, the 404 is super simple to sample and play back samples. FXs are a button press away as well. For your situation, you could even get away with a 404SX/A!
This is where the Roland SPmk2 app is going to be really helpful. Super easy to just set up all your banks from the computer.
I am a total SP newb, my Force is my main squeeze, I got an MPC just because they’re awesome, and the SP for the same reason. I believe the SP’s extra features make it a no brainer for your use case in particular.
Two main reasons in my opinion -
it will do a fine job launching samples or carrying beats for your songs, DJ mode could handle interludes (also be a sort of backup in case a band member has technical issues)
as you go along you will undoubtedly explore it more and find even more ways to use it’s extra features at a pace that isn’t overwhelming.
For me, the Skipback alone has always been worth the $450 I paid. The Fx as well. With the recent looper update, and getting a midi pedal, it’s been an insane sample capturing tool that sits separate from my main setup, and also can freely travel around to my different synths in my bedroom studio or on the road.
Other things could work, and MPC one (go used OG for savings), a BlackBox (probably want a controller), an OG Digitakt (maybe too few channels), OG Polyend Tracker, 2x Volca Sample, that Novation Circuit that samples/plays samples, Model:Samples, polyend Play (if you wanted to sequence some samples maybe the OG is cheaper)…
I always rave on about the Novation Circuit workflow, for writing tracks they have made me be more productive than I have been for almost 20 years and I think although the DJ style effects on the Circuit Rhythm would fit in this workflow really well. But I’m not sure the sample time for your loops would be long enough for you. The 404 would definitely have you covered there.
I’ve got both of them (SP404mkII and Maschine+), both are great and capable of what you want to do.
I’d use the Maschine Plus in this scenario… main reason is being able to have the screens and see what I’m triggering.
If you’ve got no more than 16 samples in a track, I would allocate one group per track and have your 16 samples in each group(track)… then, when you hit PAD you’ll always have a quick visual reference to what’s what, and that’s crucial live.
Also, if you’re doing ANY playing, the pads on the M+ are way nicer.
Obvs SP404mk2 has the live FX advantage, but I think with some prep the Perform FX, Macros and Lock states of the M+ can outdo it there too.
Another option is use the Maschine+ and run it into the SP404 to use as a Master FX? You’ve got both options then, and a cool setup.
My M+ is my shiny new toy, so I’m currently biased towards it. It’s soooo good, so much fun and very capable. As @CCMP says, you’d have to do some prepping (eg in form of a template you built out once) to use the FX on the M+ in a performative way similar to what you could do with an SP404mk2 without much prepping. But to my ears the M+ FX are better sounding than many of the effects on the SP404 so it could be worth it.
The SP404 is also the shortcut-keycombo-king of samplers…seriously, the OT is straight forward in comparison. Nothing to fret over too much, but bear in mind that while the SP404 is super immediate, the number of keycombos you’ll have to memorise will slow things down a bit at first.
The sequencer on the M+ is also a lot better, at least to my workflow needs — but then I don’t use TR-rec/seq on the SP404 (its step sequencer which was added in a firmware update).
I LOVE the SP404mk2 for resampling, the speed of it all is fantastic. Also really like the form factor and the I/O, with mic/guitar input in the front and the line inputs in the back…it’s meant to be used as the sampler on the go (battery powered etc).
I think you can’t go wrong with either. M+ is slightly more deliberate & more comprehensive, SP404 is immediate but also quirkier.
Me personally, I took out the SP404 from my jam setup and replaced it there with my M+ — but I use the SP404mk2 frequently standalone with a guitar or synth (or ipad) plugged in and take it to live jam sessions with friends. I’m glad I own both.
Let us know what you end up choosing and how you end up liking it.
