LFO -> Velocity


#41

I’m sure about my lfo settings, I have volume modulation with accent dest, and about my velocity mod settings, changing sound when I change velocity. No plocks.
I chose rdm lfo waveform, and Hold, more noticeable.

I’m on MKI. Maybe something new for MKII?
Or it affects only certain Amp parameters?
I have some doubts…possible to hear an obvious audio example??


#42

Also bumping this point (as per @sezare above and as an aide-mémoire for myself) just because it differs from the way accent also targets the velo mod matrix ordinarily - i forgot


#43

Elektron states in the Rytm MK2 manual:

11.11.6 ACCENT
Adding accent trigs is useful for quickly changing the velocity for chosen steps of a track. Accent level is a destination for modulation, which means it can be affected by, for example, LFOs. Open the ACCENT menu by pressing [FUNC] + [BANK F].

  1. So if **accent trigs is … changing the velocity for chosen steps of a track", it also HAS to change whatever you set in velocity mods. Accent changes Velocity and Velocity changes the set parameters from the Velocity matrix.

  2. If I tweak Accent manually, that is exactly, what happens - basically you tweak the velocity effect of selected notes. Check.

  3. Now when you target “Accent level” by the LFO it does not affect the sound as it does, when you tweak Accent manually. It seems to affect volume only (as you all write), if “velocity to vol” is on. But it does not seem to change velocity (and the set modulation matrix) as described.

  4. The manual does not state ANY limitation here or that you can LFO Accent level for volume modulation only.

  5. The way it works now only changing volume, IF “velocity to vol” is on does not make too much practical sense.

To me the case is quite clear: it does not work as described. So I reported it as a bug of course.

Elektron reacted:
“This was a peculiar issue, I was able to reproduce it here. I’m going to find out why this happens, it may be a bug. Either way, hank you for bringing it to our attention.”

“I’ve reported the issue to our developers. I don’t know if they’re planning to check it out and if so when, but I hope they will soon.”

Last sentence does not give us much hope I guess, does it? Also that the device is over a year old and ths feature just seems to be neglected.

Now coming from the other side:

There is this little word “level” you don’t find anywhere else, just in this one sentence and in the LFO-target menu of Rytm.

Accent level is a destination for modulation, which means it can be affected by, for example, LFOs.

Its not explicitly explained as being a partial attribute value of accent only influencing the volume level of accented notes through velocity. On other occasions they use “Accent value” though.

And well, it still does not make any practical sense. So the whole description of the manual is strongly misleading (why is it not called at least “accent volume” then?) in this case to say the least and they should please correct that after more than a year of confusion.

Okay let’s still assume, this is how it is. How could it be phrased approximately in the manual? Something like this:

11.11.6 ACCENT
Adding accent trigs is useful for quickly changing the velocity for chosen steps of a track.
Accent level is changing only the volume of accented trigs through velocity to volume and is a destination for modulation, which means it can be affected by, for example, LFOs. Velocity to vol has to be on for this modulation to have an effect.

Would this really make sense to anyone? :smiley: Who needs that and why?

How much more sense does it makes that accent level is simply the accent value of a note.


#44

Yes, accent relation to velocity is also stated in MKI manual. Velocity parameter in Trig Menu can be midi controlled (not talking about incoming midi notes velocity). So it can be externally or manually modulated, when velocity is not plocked.

Btw I don’t understand why all parameters you can control via midi can’t be controlled with the only lfo we have per track. Add aftertouch and we have a totally new device concerning lfo modulations. Other tracks lfo parameters as destination would be great too.

Free AR lfos!


#45

#46

Thanks for the video, but it’s still not obvious for me that the lfo modulate Velocity Mod parameters.
I can hear Amp Vol variation by lfo, not other parameters. It would be more obvious with Velocity to Vol off, Velocity Mod on pitch, random waveform.


#47

BTW are the pads transmitting aftertouch?


#48

Yes. Not sure but Poly Aftertouch apparently, not Channel Aftertouch.


#49

min 1:20 is when I enter in velocity mod page.
min 1:30 you can hear the CPCL:Noise Decay be triggered by the accent on step 13. Keep in mind that the lfo waveform is triggered on lower value on step 5 and upper value on step 13 so accent is more present on step 13 and the assigned velocity mods more pronounced)
min 1:43 I assign clap number and clap rate to vel mod
the last, the reverb is more evident: accent on step 13 more reverb accent on step 5 less reverb.


#50

Yes I could clearly hear that you increased Velocity Mod parameters, their offset with the accent, not their modulation with lfo.

It would be more obvious with Velocity to Vol off, Velocity Mod on pitch, random lfo settings (accent dest), accent for all trigs.
No lfo modulation for me with these settings.


#51

Hi FrankLeone,

unfortunately your video is not convincing me, I can only hear volume emphasizes. If you switch off “velocity to vol” you can show the difference better if a note is louder, it also got a louder reverb.

Here is my video I sent to support, where it clearly does not change the velocity matrix opposing to tweaking accent manually:


#52

Yes, essentially this is the desired effect, I’m sorry I revisited my post where I’m talking about modulation. I was wrong to express the concept. The LFO to accent does not modulate the velocity mod parameters in the strict sense. Let’s take the case that in velocity mod I set clap noise decay with a depth of 50. So when the lfo gives a more pronounced accent, the sound will have more noise decay, when the accent is less pronounced the decay will be shorter. Thus the whole established within fixed values. But the operation is exactly that. As well as tapping on pad, if tap slightly no decay effect, if tap stronger we hear the longer decay. The lfo to accent works like this, takes different velocity values ​​and based on what is set in velocity mod we hear the effect


#53

Hi MultipleChoice,
My intent is not to convince anyone, I don’t sell anything. :wink:
I saw your video. First of all, to feel the difference, you shouldn’t have the accent on all the notes. Normal notes must have a low velocity value and those accented around the max. Then when you say in the video that lfo to accent doesn’t work, pay attention, the accent level is equal to 0, and the lfo should be set correctly to feel how it acts on the accent level. Try these settings
SPD +8
MUL x16
DST AMP: Accent Level
WAV TRI
MOD FREE
DEP MAX

EDIT: I understand what you mean. You are saying that even if velocity to volume is OFF the lfo to accent should still change the set modulation matrix. I don’t know if it’s a bug. Since the accent is a velocity variation correlated to a volume increase first of all, to ensure that LFO to accent work, the volume must always be taken into consideration. If there are no variations in volume and then in accent the lfo has nothing to change. IDK


#54

First of all a test is not about how to use accent, but how to test if it works as described and understood.
My point was and is only, that the velocity matrix is not being lfo-ed with accent, only velocity volume.

We have to separate things:

(I am talking here only about the rytm mk2)

Velocity is an attribute of a triggered note. Different values of velocity CAN but must not affect the volume, called “VELOCITY TO VOL”- It can also affect 4 more programmable attributes in the velocity matrix called “VELOCITY MOD”.

Accent basically adds to the velocity value of set notes and changes anything that velocity would change (VELOCITY VOL + VELOCITY MOD) and sets accents by doing so.

That is exactly what happens, as I show in the video. You can clearly hear despite accent being set on all notes - how when I tweak accent, you hear the velocity of the notes changing and can clearly hear it as a filter effect set in VELOCITY MOD.

Now it would be really useful to LFO those accented notes since that is a way to LFO the velocity without volume, meaning you could LFO up to 4 programmable parameters at the same time. Then you read, yeah, that is possible.

But now comes the part that is an irregularity:
If you LFO Accent level, only VELOCITY TO VOL is changed by the LFO.

Solution #1
If that was intentional, Elektron could easily write that to clarify this in the manual and avoid misleading.

As for your louder reverb longer decay arguments:
Please mind, that sounds triggered in higher volumes do cause a louder reverb and delay. Also the decay can appear longer, since it is longer audible.

I am happy, you are satisfied with that, but this is actually not what the manual states.

Solution #2:
If that is not intentional, hence a bug, we would like to get it fixed.

And that is exactly what we try to achieve here.

What are you trying to achieve here?


#55

Nope, decay does not appear longer due to the volume. Noise decay it is longer or shorter based on the accent that is found, as well as clap number and clap rate. Do you use studio headphones? Unless you have hearing problems you will feel the differences.
In my opinion, lfo to accent must change only velocity to vol, and this ‘automated’ velocity then interact with the velocity mod. Since it is not called LFO to Velocity Mod, but LFO to Accent, if velocity to vol is excluded it simply doesn’t work as Accent = Velocity to Volume.


#56

It is also not called velocity to vol.

it is called LFO to accent level. LFO should do, what I do with my hand, when I change Accent, but through the LFO. With or without VELOCITY TO VOL on, the VELOCITY MOD matrix does not apply, when LFO-ed.

That behavior is confirmed by Elektron as
“This was a peculiar issue, I was able to reproduce it here. I’m going to find out why this happens, it may be a bug. Either way, hank you for bringing it to our attention.”

But please see my posts so far, I wrote my arguments in a very logical and systematic way. I also proposed two solutions. Even if it works in a way you are okay with, don’t you think it could be written way less misleading?

And I still do not understand what you want to achieve here.

Convince us its all good? Or just for fun?


#57

Nope, decay does not appear longer due to the volume. Noise decay it is longer or shorter based on the accent that is found, as well as clap number and clap rate.

Where is this behaviour described in the manual?