LFO -> Velocity


#21

This is just because all trigs have an accent level of 100 by default (trig velo). Turn down the default velo of a sound from the trig menu page and you’ll find plenty of range with the accent function. It’s one of my fave features on the AR, since you can modulate up to four params this way, without using plocks or messing anything up. You can also shift the accent trigs left/right so you can quickly experiment with diff accenting. Love it!


#22

yeah - all much clearer now - you get LFO controlling the accent level which boosts the apparent velocity - but this does not give you the effects you would otherwise hear through velo mod settings - just as void mentioned on the dynamics side of the voice - I can see the source of the confusion, I’m less sure it’s a potential os problem now … especially as pointed out, it takes lowering the default track vel setting somewhat to hear the effect, but the LFO definitely works … so accent is partly playing like velocity does (it’s layered onto the velocity value), just without some of the extras available when inputting velocity directly

edit: to me it makes perfect sense this way, to bypass the velo mod stuff that is !


#23

yeh, hmmm… not sure if bypassing the vel mod when using LFO->acc brings a ton of value tbh. Not sure what exactly is being modulated in that case, but sounds like it’s two params: volume (somewhere) and maybe synth decay… not sure. So, pragmatically: you get to modulate 2 hard wired params on accent trigs. If it would affect vel mod, you would get 4, maybe with the additional w hard wired ones, so up to six. Not losing sleep over it, but would be cool! (haven’t used vel mod & accent a ton personally)


#24

i guess my position was that an accent should only bump the volume of a trig

in order to do this there needs to be a delta between max velocity and step velocity

the accent amount fills this gap on a 1:1 basis, so with step vel at 64, accents above 64 will not be more prominent

so it’s like a two stage way to only affect velocity, only the first stage is subject to velo mod, so if you accent it, you don’t change it fundamentally, you merely bump the volume up (if there’s any room left)

I am all for crazy mod possibilities but this way seems like it’s intentional to me, i think it makes more sense as a level boost (subject to no further transformative velo mod action) - i’d say it’s likely just as I described, an additional layer on top of the programmed velocity value only … other perceived voice changes would be replicable by swapping in a higher velocity equivalent to the removed accent amount

so vel 50 with accent 50 sounds the same as vel 100 - haven’t tested


#25

If we consider how accent works in the analog Roland x0x machines, just increasing volume is not enough to replicate the behaviour. Velo mod matrix gives us the flexibility to reach similar expression (and beyond).

To me it’s also about clarity. It is very vague to use the term Accent in two ways, if the LFO target parameter “accent” is not the same as what Accent trigs do, it should be at least mentioned in the elektron FAQ


#26

I am confused now - I thought it was - now not so sure I summed it up quite right
it is ambiguous that manually tweaking accent level should give different results to LFO modulating the accent level

whichever way you look at it it now seems quite inconsistent, I get what you’re saying, eventually ! :wink:


#27

this method works absolutely brilliant.

LFO to Accent-----function + synth-----disable velocity to vol----go to mod matrix change params and depth----place trigs—press play—go to trig page and change the Velo parameter counterclockwise. LFO modulates 4 parameter destinations via the velocity value. you can even see the value being trig’d inside that mod matrix. —the velocity value should jump from one trig to another…this clearly shows how hard one trig gets modulated… i like that feature.


#28

Er?! Which OS are you on?


#29

Hmmm… following your example doesn’t work, BUT if I have vel->vol ENABLED, I am able to get the LFO alter the sound of accented trigs, but it doesn’t work like it seems like it should…

It also seems to really only work if I have the default accent level at zero and + values in LFO…

It almost seems like the velocity mod matrix was coded by someone else from the rest of the AR… :slight_smile:

For instance you can’t press the encoder for enter like you can on LFO page.

But in typical Elektron forum fashion, while I didn’t find an answer to the subject of the thread, the idea of shifting the accent “track” is fucking awesome! Just tried it. Cool way to get even more variation!

Now, if the accent track could have a different length setting from the trig track, that would be madness! :slight_smile:


#30

not on the OS I am using ! are you sure you didn’t have live record on when you varied the velocity value ?
I get no direct link between LFO (set to Accent Level) and Velocity Mod Matrix
(including pre-reducing the standard track velocity to allow plenty movement each way and having pitch parameters in the matrix which would be very obvious if tapped in live via the pads)

it is possible to get a link between LFO and Voice volume (if vel to level toggle is on and the track velocity is not already too high)


#31

hhmmm… using OS 1.30 D. I’ve set up the mod matrix to significant values like tune, sample slot, freq., resonance.

The LFO is triggering the Accent level, which means a hard or soft press to a pad, but in this case modulated by the LFO, you have to know that ACCENT kicks Velocity and Velocity kicks the Mod Matrix. you’ll have to mix between those parameters, LFO high, Velocity down, you can clearly hear the changes if you try this with one Active trig and the rest should be used as a trigless trig but with LFO activated (change the Values in the mod matrix) . You can clearly hear the LFO is altering the sound.


#32

Here’s what to try, to see if we are on the same page @JohnnyEgo

Clear a Kit and pattern
Select RS 3
Assign Velo Mod +ve 50 on RS Tune
tap pad and tune varies
tap trig 3 and tune is constant
now reduce the track velocity value to 64

drop 16 trigs across the bar in step mode
all play constant tune
now add 8 accents for trigs 1>8
those first 8 play a bit higher as the default accent of 32 adds to the track 64 vel

before you leave the accent menu, bring accent value down to 0

now go to LFO
assign to accent level
put depth to 64
change mul to x4

now you will hear the first 8 trigs will periodically get louder as the saw lfo aligns - but the pitch is NOT changed

so the LFO is not affecting velo mod parameters, it is only affecting dynamics

if you manually adjust the accent level above zero now you will hear the pitch rise, but not with any influence of the lfo modulation at all

that’s how it is for me (and others above i guess) - that’s why the issue has been reported, it seems to be inconsistent between manual tweaking and lfo targeting of accent level (which only affects voice level)


#33

The only time I see the velocity indicator move in the mod matrix (aside from live input) is on explicitly accented trigs… no matter what I do with LFO, the veil don’t move.

Either I’m missing something, or you have a sooper sekret OS going on.

If that’s the case, I want it, because what you describe is exactly what we need!

Can you post a quick and dirty video of you doing this?


#34

yeah i think you’re right. it’s about that missing LFO effect that usually chimes in when your destination is just 'tune for example. turn off velocity to volume will give you far better results.

would be cool if @Ess or @Dataline experiment with that.


#35

I got a reply to my support ticket. Elektron says that the accent destination in the LFO only adjusts the volume boost of the accent trigs. So it would seem that it’s not intended to work the way we would prefer… Too bad.


#36

If that is the case (and it’s not an oversight - I can see the logic in it tbh) then the destination would perhaps be better served named as Accent Volume as opposed to Accent Level due to the understandable confusion


#37

owwwww bummer.


#38

Hello! I managed to make the LFO to Accent work with Velocity Mod. The result is that the accent in addition to increasing the velocity to the set x value, also reacts to the 4 parameters set in the Velocity Mod Setup.

A practical example could be this:
Let’s take a new pattern and select track 4 CP.
Go in Trig Setup page and set velocity to 12.
Press REC and place trigs on 3-5-7 and 11-13-15.
Press Func+Accent, set accent value to 100 and place accent trigs on 5 and 13.
Now go to the LFO page and set things as below:
SPD +8
MUL x16
DST AMP: Accent Level
WAV TRI
SPH 64
MOD FREE
DEP MAX
Go in Trig Page setup and p-lock ‘LFO ON’ on trig 3, so that LFO restart in phase.
Press PLAY: you will hear the LFO change the velocity (accent on trig 5 and 13 have different velocity values).

Now comes the beauty :slight_smile:
Go in Sound Settings->Velocity Mod.
Set first modulation to AMP: Delay Send and depth to ie 39.
Set second modulation to CPCL: Noise Decay and depth to 24.
Set third modulation to LFO: Waveform and depth to 48.
Set last modulation to LFO: Multiplier and depth to 2.

So here is the LFO change the velocity (accent) which in turn change the 4 parameters values in the Velocity Mod screen and the nice thing is that you can also assign LFO speed or rate that react to this.

p-lock a reverb send to trig 5 and 13, play with filter, also try changing the accent trig on the fly from 5-13 to 3-11, 7-15 for more fun!


#39

Yes, great idea! I didn’t know that accent destination, and relation to velocity!
I was planning to modulate Velocity with OT, so I think I’ll use this a lot!

Edit :thinking: I could modulate VOL only…(with velocity to VOL).


#40

here the lfo settings on track 4
LFO%20SET

have you assigned some modulation in sound settings>velocity mod?
SOUND%20SET
try to do the same procedure I did step by step, every time accent trig is played these four mod destinations in vel mod setup are activated.
And since the lfo to accent changes the amount of accent and therefore velocity, the amount of parameter modulation assigned to velocity changes accordingly