LFO sync?

Here’s a programmed (i.e., doesn’t require manually adjusting the LFO settings during pattern playback) “solution” that I got to work last night:

  1. Set the LFO(s) to SYNC TRIG mode
  2. Save the part you did #1 on (eg, part 1) and link it to some pattern (eg, pattern a1)
  3. Copy the part to another part (eg, part 2)
  4. Copy your pattern to another pattern (eg, pattern a2)
  5. Switch to the new part (part 2)
  6. Set the LFO(s) to FREE mode or HOLD mode
  7. Save part 2 and link it to the new pattern (a2)
  8. Use arranger to play pattern a1 and then infinitely (or however many times you want) loop pattern a2

This way, the LFO(s) will always start at the same phase position and then continue to cycle without resetting each time their hosting tracks restart.

But I’m pretty sure that I’m never going to do this in practice, because it makes the simplest sequence into a Rube Goldberg contraption. I’d rather use Parts and the Arranger for what they excel at and only when I need them for what they excel at.

Hopefully someone else can find a better solution. Doubt that Elektron would prioritize addressing this in the Octatrack at this stage of development, but I feel that it could be quite unobtrusively handled by a new parameter in the pattern settings menu (where you can configure tracks as Plays Free, etc.) that governs whether SYNC TRIG LFOs reset only when patterns start playback. I imagine it would be a taller order to implement an entirely new LFO mode.

I submitted a ticket about this to Elektron because I feel that it misses out on enormous potential and the Octatrack is so very close to being able to support this.

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Thanks for that. Sounds good.
Don’t think it will give me 16 bars of variation from a 1 bar pattern (for example) though, which was the idea that started me off on these slow lfos. Well maybe it could if I took the tempo right down… Too much compromise
Manually switching from ‘sync trig’ to ‘free’ for the transposing lfo does it fine though. Just feels like I’m forcing ‘trig sync’ to do what it should do anyway (that is, play continuously from track start)[/quote]
I discussed this topic with Simon in a support ticket (thanks Simon!), and along the way got the idea to push zite909’s idea further.

Maybe not 16 bars of variation from a 1 bar note sequence, but you can get 8, as long as you don’t mind using the Inception-style arp sequencer for your fastest-moving pitch and gate events. You can ‘draw’ a 16-step note sequence in the arp sequencer (or in a designer LFO that’s routed to arp transposition at a fast enough playback speed), run the arp at its ‘3x’ speed, configure your track to run for 64 steps at 1/2 the base tempo, and drop an infinite-length trig (or whatever you want to do to fire off the arp) in the main trig sequencer. Then you can route a SYNC TRIG LFO to whatever parameter you like, at a slow enough speed that it will run its full course when the track has finished (effectively 8 bars, relative to the base tempo).

This workaround does mean giving up per-step control of velocity, note length, CC messages, etc., which is unfortunate, but I’ll definitely be experimenting with it to see how manageable it is.

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I found that using a LFO with “Trigger” option and using the “1st” probability trigger on the first step in the sequece to work pretty ok (apart from the “1st” trigger sometimes starts on the second bar, if that happens i delete the trigger and try again, it usually works the second time and then it sticks to working)…but as you say we loose some control with the notes in the sequencer (i need to investigate more but i guess we can still use trigless trigs to change arp speed, transpose etc etp with probability triggers …1:4 etc). But it is a pretty interesting way of generating melodies. Do a LFO with the LFO designer…set it to speed of 8 and multiplier of 1 and link that to ARP transpose. Then enable ARP and build a melody ontop at the speed you like…with a 16 step sequencer and scale of 1 (default settings). I get 16 bars of “variation” (transposition from the LFO designer, and if i set LFO speed to 4 i get 32 bars). So with the 1st trigger no need to run fast arps or 64 step sequences or change the “scale” of the sequence. Also i found that if i map a square LFO to the ARP speed i could get the arp to shuffle a little…but only at depth of 1 or 2…more gets wonky…need to investigate more…still would have been nice with a LFO that would start with the transport and be in sync with the main clock…and not reset until told with a certain parameterlock instead of tied to a note trigger.

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Doesn’t quite work if you want to use any “trigful trigs” on the track, but I appreciate how you’re thinking about this and that we have wanted to get similar things out of the LFO designer <3

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That sounds interesting, have to try that! :upside_down_face:

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Yes, haha, any “trigful trig” would reset the LFO again with this “1st” trigger way…i am also thinking about using 2 midi tracks to the same midi channel…do the “trigful trigs” on the second channel and the long variations with LFO designer+ARP on the first track…not sure if it will merge or what (i think i read one track will get prio). I quite like to decouple gates, velocity, ratchets etc from notes track and have different length on each sequence. It would be great if we could get some more features on the LFO’s. For example have a LFO trigger a note, have a LFO re-trigger another LFO or note, be able to adress (retriggert) each of the 3LFO’s separately per track as a dedicated parameter/LFO destination) maybe even have audio levels (with a threshold) to be able to trigger the LFO…an envelope follower on the inputs that can trigger a LFO (with options to send a LFO re-trig or note trig with a gate from the set threshold on the envelope follower…even map the envelope follower to FX like filters etc)…and maybe even clock the LFO from the audio input and even advance/reset the LFO designer…more like a modular. Octatrack is a beast as is…but could use some love in the LFO department.

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yeah i need to test it more…test different waves (square was only had like 2 “shuffle” values…but it felt a little wonky (untight)…maybe using the “attenuator trick” with a low value LFO designer to get finer values on the depth it can get more usable) I have to test it more if it really is usable or to messy.

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For midi CC, the midi track with lower track number gets priority, if you have lfos mapped to the same parameter - so you can‘t directly mix lfos from different tracks.
You can have different lfos on two or more tracks and switch between them by muting/unmuting tracks, but when more than one track is active, only the lfo on the lowest track is output.

Note trigs and p-locking CCs works simultaneously on more than one track, although if you p-lock the same CC on the same step, again lower track number gets priority.

Seems you can have lfos on several tracks modulating the same note and arp parameters if you have note trigs on both tracks!

So lfos on two tracks modulating for example arp transpose actually works.

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Tank you for this info! I will investigate this. Interesting!

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This. I really want to be able to transpose patterns with OT and met the pattern lfo reset-wall like you are writing about. For now I am doing the sync trig to free manually you wrote about earlier in the thread, kind of works. Did you find another solution other than this more clunky one?

Welcome. :slightly_smiling_face:

Interesting! Thanks to revive it.
I didn’t know it, can’t remember a better solution to sync an lfo starting from the beginning of the pattern, longer than the pattern. @Autopoiesis ?

Could you elaborate what you would like to achieve ?

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My ideal solution would be to MIDI transpose like the A4 could, a number of patterns simultaneously. I just found out that this kinda works if you put the MIDI arp of all tracks involved in the tune of your song, and then use arranger to transpose MIDI. Sounds good to me.

Before I solved this now I also met OPs problem with the lfo restarting every 64 steps when when trying to both sync and keep it going past 64 steps for longer pattern changes.

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