LFO sync?

mkdsl · 2014-06-17T01:12:41.000Z

I need the sequence to start from the begining every time the pattern starts… The trig and one modes keep retriggering it, hold mode makes it pause when i start / stop the sequencer, resulting in out of sync playing, plays free continues to cycle when it’s stopped…
If i press stop, and then play i want it to start from the begining. That’s what i want.

Sorry for the rant, it’s late here.

analogback · 2014-06-17T02:05:22.000Z

sweet, its not too much to ask for!
so why are you using hold?
just use trig mode on the first trigstep.
and on the subsequent trig steps use trigless locks

hope that helps

NickD · 2014-06-17T09:05:57.000Z

It sounds like analogback wants the custom transpose LFO to run fully across a sequence that contains multiple note trigs, but the note trigs are restarting the LFO.

Have you tried setting the LFO sync to SYNC TRIG? This should start the LFO when the track starts and then let it run freely (notes won’t retrigger it). Then you should just be able to set the LFO speed as required to transpose your pattern.

See page 72 of the current manual for more on sync trig.

Clancy · 2015-09-23T12:59:56.000Z

Just bringing this one up again as it’s very similar to my current issue.

The SYNC TRIG lfo setting doesn’t seem to work as described. It doesn’t start with the TRACK as described, but with the PATTERN, which means it restarts with every loop of that track.

Starting with track would be so much more useful as it wouldn’t restart, allowing for long evolves.

At the moment I want to use a slow lfo design to transpose to a different pitch 16 times over many bars…

The workaround I have found is to start sequencer with lfo set to SYNC TRIG, then before the pattern repeats, switch it to FREE.

Let me know if I’m missing something here. It’s something I have spent a bit of time with, but like everything on the OT you can never be sure if you’ve exhausted all possibilities - a good thing!

PeterHanes · 2015-09-23T13:19:58.000Z

""Clancy"":

Just bringing this one up again as it’s very similar to my current issue.

The SYNC TRIG lfo setting doesn’t seem to work as described. It doesn’t start with the TRACK as described, but with the PATTERN, which means it restarts with every loop of that track.

Starting with track would be so much more useful as it wouldn’t restart, allowing for long evolves.

At the moment I want to use a slow lfo design to transpose to a different pitch 16 times over many bars…

The workaround I have found is to start sequencer with lfo set to SYNC TRIG, then before the pattern repeats, switch it to FREE.

Let me know if I’m missing something here. It’s something I have spent a bit of time with, but like everything on the OT you can never be sure if you’ve exhausted all possibilities - a good thing!

I don’t think you’re missing anything about the LFOs, but you are almost in a position where you might want to use the Arranger to pre-program the transpositions.

J.m · 2015-09-23T13:29:11.000Z

Wouldn’t the ‘one’ option work here?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, most likely

zite909 · 2015-09-23T14:33:37.000Z

I don’t think you’re missing anything about the LFOs, but you are almost in a >position where you might want to use the Arranger to pre-program the >transpositions.

Unfortunately I think that audio track cannot be transposed from the arranger. Thats why I think that the OP wants to use a slow LFO synchronised to the track as work around for that (clever idea btw!).
But I dont think it will work because the LFO will be restarted each time the pattern start over.

Maybe one day the audio track will become transposable from the arranger ?

PeterHanes · 2015-09-23T15:11:02.000Z

""zite909"":

I don’t think you’re missing anything about the LFOs, but you are almost in a >position where you might want to use the Arranger to pre-program the >transpositions.

Unfortunately I think that audio track cannot be transposed from the arranger. Thats why I think that the OP wants to use a slow LFO synchronised to the track as work around for that (clever idea btw!).
But I dont think it will work because the LFO will be restarted each time the pattern start over.

…

You’re right: I had forgotten that. That deserves a support ticket.

zite909 · 2015-09-23T19:56:52.000Z

Actually I just realised that it is possible to solve this issue by doing exactly the opposite :
-Use the LFO designer to generate the melody of the track. The LFO should be restarted at the beginning of the pattern (i dont remember the name of this setting).
-Divide the tempo of the track as required
-use the track trig to transpose the melody.

It should give you the result you want. Actually this how i use the OT for melody.

Clancy · 2015-09-23T21:42:25.000Z

[quote=“” zite909""]
Actually I just realised that it is possible to solve this issue by doing exactly the opposite :
-Use the LFO designer to generate the melody of the track. The LFO should be restarted at the beginning of the pattern (i dont remember the name of this setting).
-Divide the tempo of the track as required
-use the track trig to transpose the melody.

It should give you the result you want. Actually this how i use the OT for melody.

[/quote]

Thanks for that. Sounds good.
Don’t think it will give me 16 bars of variation from a 1 bar pattern (for example) though, which was the idea that started me off on these slow lfos. Well maybe it could if I took the tempo right down… Too much compromise
Manually switching from ‘sync trig’ to ‘free’ for the transposing lfo does it fine though. Just feels like I’m forcing ‘trig sync’ to do what it should do anyway (that is, play continuously from track start)

avantronica · 2015-09-24T22:10:31.000Z

""Clancy"":

The SYNC TRIG lfo setting doesn’t seem to work as described.

It doesn’t start with the TRACK as described, but with the PATTERN, which means

it restarts with every loop of that track.

am I missing something or did you just answer your own question - there are 8 audio tracks per pattern (+midi) - what ‘track’ concept are you referring to and how does the manual deviate from its own description … ?

Autopoiesis · 2016-03-18T20:25:17.000Z

[quote=““avantronica””]

Clancy:

The SYNC TRIG lfo setting doesn’t seem to work as described.

It doesn’t start with the TRACK as described, but with the PATTERN, which means

it restarts with every loop of that track.

am I missing something or did you just answer your own question - there are 8 audio tracks per pattern (+midi) - what ‘track’ concept are you referring to and how does the manual deviate from its own description … ?[/quote]
I’m also not sure about Clancy’s use of “track” and “pattern” here, but what he describes is certainly frustrating. In SYNC TRIG mode, LFOs restart every time a track starts OR restarts, not just when a pattern or arrangement has started playing. I do actually think that the manual is somewhat misleading about this:
“SYNC TRIG will restart the LFO on track start. The LFO then plays continuously.”

IMHO, this statement pretty naturally reads as implying that the LFO will restart when a track first plays, and then continue to cycle without resetting. This is what Clancy wants to be possible, and I also wish this were possible. I was pretty bummed to discover this last night, as I would really love to be able to run an LFO over more than 4 bars but have it start at the beginning whenever you start playing a pattern or arrangement. It means you can’t really use the LFO designer effectively for very slow-moving modulations.

avantronica · 2016-03-18T21:15:05.000Z

""Autopoiesis"":

IMHO, this statement pretty naturally reads as implying that the LFO will restart when a track first plays, and then continue to cycle without resetting.

perhaps wishful thinking, though not unreasonable (and very easy to accomplish on analogs)
if you chained two patterns ( looping latter ‘free sync’ version of pattern) somehow in the arranger - you’d achieve what you needed (at expense of other hassles) - or manually set it to free after it starts - or a.n.other solution i’m guessing may be out there

jrnmv · 2016-03-18T22:00:19.000Z

Not sure if this is exactly what you’re after, but buried in the settings menu for the sequencer, there’s an option for Auto Change in regards to LFOs that will restart ALL otherwise free-running versions provided the pattern that you’re changing to is associated with a different part.

Per the manual (p. 37):

LFO AUTO CHANGE will when checked make all LFOs automatically restart with any new LFO settings activated when changing to a pattern containing another part.

If unchecked, the settings of the LFOs of the previous pattern/part will not be changed until trigs occur on the tracks of the new pattern. Activate and deactivatethis setting by pressing [ENTER/YES].

Does that help?

Good luck!

avantronica · 2016-03-18T22:13:01.000Z

^ thanks for pointer

jrnmv · 2016-03-18T22:27:50.000Z

Anytime!

Hoping there’s a workaround within that setting for this specific situation.

Autopoiesis · 2016-03-21T18:50:14.000Z

""avantronica"":

[quote=“Autopoiesis”]IMHO, this statement pretty naturally reads as implying that the LFO will restart when a track first plays, and then continue to cycle without resetting.

perhaps wishful thinking, though not unreasonable (and very easy to accomplish on analogs)
if you chained two patterns ( looping latter ‘free sync’ version of pattern) somehow in the arranger - you’d achieve what you needed (at expense of other hassles) - or manually set it to free after it starts - or a.n.other solution i’m guessing may be out there[/quote]
It seems that could work. I’ll give it a try later today. Even if it does the trick, it’s too bad that it requires resorting to using the arranger in such a clunky fashion. I’m preaching to the choir here, but I really wish Elektron were still actively supporting the Octatrack’s development, as here we are discussing how close the machine is to being able to do something powerful for sequencing, but just falls short because there isn’t a fitting LFO mode. It looks like I may be approaching the end of my days of hoping to stave off the desire for a Cirklon by stretching the limits of the OT’s MIDI sequencer

Autopoiesis · 2016-03-22T03:35:39.000Z

Sorry to report that the arranger approach doesn’t do the trick - I can’t seem to get the LFO mode (sync trig vs free) to differ between patterns or arrangements. Are you sure it’s possible? Maybe I’m missing something.

Anyway, until then, it looks like manually switching from “sync trig” to “free” gets the job done. Hardly ideal, but I still love the Octatrack. Maybe it’s Stockholm syndrome

Autopoiesis · 2016-04-01T17:34:09.000Z

Here’s a programmed (i.e., doesn’t require manually adjusting the LFO settings during pattern playback) “solution” that I got to work last night:

Set the LFO(s) to SYNC TRIG mode
Save the part you did #1 on (eg, part 1) and link it to some pattern (eg, pattern a1)
Copy the part to another part (eg, part 2)
Copy your pattern to another pattern (eg, pattern a2)
Switch to the new part (part 2)
Set the LFO(s) to FREE mode or HOLD mode
Save part 2 and link it to the new pattern (a2)
Use arranger to play pattern a1 and then infinitely (or however many times you want) loop pattern a2

This way, the LFO(s) will always start at the same phase position and then continue to cycle without resetting each time their hosting tracks restart.

But I’m pretty sure that I’m never going to do this in practice, because it makes the simplest sequence into a Rube Goldberg contraption. I’d rather use Parts and the Arranger for what they excel at and only when I need them for what they excel at.

Hopefully someone else can find a better solution. Doubt that Elektron would prioritize addressing this in the Octatrack at this stage of development, but I feel that it could be quite unobtrusively handled by a new parameter in the pattern settings menu (where you can configure tracks as Plays Free, etc.) that governs whether SYNC TRIG LFOs reset only when patterns start playback. I imagine it would be a taller order to implement an entirely new LFO mode.

I submitted a ticket about this to Elektron because I feel that it misses out on enormous potential and the Octatrack is so very close to being able to support this.

Autopoiesis · 2016-05-06T22:13:36.000Z

""Clancy"":

[quote=" zite909"]Actually I just realised that it is possible to solve this issue by doing exactly the opposite :
-Use the LFO designer to generate the melody of the track. The LFO should be restarted at the beginning of the pattern (i dont remember the name of this setting).
-Divide the tempo of the track as required
-use the track trig to transpose the melody.

It should give you the result you want. Actually this how i use the OT for melody.

Thanks for that. Sounds good.
Don’t think it will give me 16 bars of variation from a 1 bar pattern (for example) though, which was the idea that started me off on these slow lfos. Well maybe it could if I took the tempo right down… Too much compromise
Manually switching from ‘sync trig’ to ‘free’ for the transposing lfo does it fine though. Just feels like I’m forcing ‘trig sync’ to do what it should do anyway (that is, play continuously from track start)[/quote]
I discussed this topic with Simon in a support ticket (thanks Simon!), and along the way got the idea to push zite909’s idea further.

Maybe not 16 bars of variation from a 1 bar note sequence, but you can get 8, as long as you don’t mind using the Inception-style arp sequencer for your fastest-moving pitch and gate events. You can ‘draw’ a 16-step note sequence in the arp sequencer (or in a designer LFO that’s routed to arp transposition at a fast enough playback speed), run the arp at its ‘3x’ speed, configure your track to run for 64 steps at 1/2 the base tempo, and drop an infinite-length trig (or whatever you want to do to fire off the arp) in the main trig sequencer. Then you can route a SYNC TRIG LFO to whatever parameter you like, at a slow enough speed that it will run its full course when the track has finished (effectively 8 bars, relative to the base tempo).

This workaround does mean giving up per-step control of velocity, note length, CC messages, etc., which is unfortunate, but I’ll definitely be experimenting with it to see how manageable it is.