LFO sync/speed/trigger specifics

So I’m certain this option exists, as it’s a very basic lfo sync / speed/trigger setting everywhere. Unfortunately my brain and elektron’s are wired differently. This is even more true when comparing my brain with the writer of the octa manual’s brain.

The icons/descriptors are like heiroglyphs to me.

Essentially I want to set up an lfo that begins when I hit play, and loops every 8, 16, or 32 bars. The way I’m understanding it so far, it’s impossible to have a synced lfo that is slower than the 4 bar limit, and triggered in sync, just once at start.
Obviously internally you can reduce the resolution so a bar only plays 1/8th notes/whatever per step, but this is not adequate for my needs when I’m using midi tracks to sequence external gear .

This peaked my interest so I had a look in the manual. Allegedly the LFO is always tempo-sync’d, so an SPD=3 is “whatever 3 means relative to tempo” rather than “whatever 3 means relative to local time”.

So, the next key thing is that the manual says multiples of 4 work to sync to steps/patterns. It suggests SPD=16, 32, or 64 are good for syncing to steps/patterns. You’ll have to play with the numbers to find the SPD which works for you. The MULT option on the LFO Set Up page is a multiplier for the SPD (duh! :smiley:) so you might want something like MULT=1/2 or MULT=1/4 to get a nice long sweep. This should be enough to get the timing right.

Next you said you wanted to reset after longer than one pattern. That seems trickier, from my reading. Most of the LFO sync modes lead to resetting or holding when the sequencer reaches a trig. This means that the LFO will re-trigger (or hold) for each note/sample. I presume you don’t want that. You need a way to separate resetting the LFO from the note/sample trigs.

If you’re working with MIDI, you could explore using one MIDI Track for LFOs and a 2nd MIDI track, on the same channel, for notes/trigs. If you’re working with audio, perhaps set the LFOs up on a Neighbour track and leave the “source” track free of LFOs and just doing the note/sample trigs. Or go wild and use a MIDI LFO to drive an audio track via loopback. Basically you lose a track any which way, but should be able to control the triggering.

Trigless trigs, trigless locks.
Also slide trigs, possibly.

Not used these yet. You can use trigless trigs to re-trig an LFO, yes? But I think @avlantis wants the opposite: trigs that don’t re-trig the LFO, except occasionally, and the option of normal trigs in between these LFO re-triggers.

Oh… .hang on… are you saying you can use trigless trigs for the notes/samples, w/out retriggering the LFO?

(goes back to the manual…)

Seems like… if you are happy not to have a note/sample on the first step of the pattern, you can trigger the LFO to reset using a trigless trig. If you want to retrig the LFO only after N cycles of the pattern, you could set a condition (e.g. 1:N) on the trigless trig.

But what if you also want a note to play every time step 1 comes around, but for the LFO to only start on [PLAY] or on a 1:4 condition? Can that be done with just one track?

Thanks for the thoughts.
Just for absolute clarity, I will attempt to describe it again. (Apologies, I always struggle to communicate ideas).

Pattern begins for first time - either due to start message, or external program change.

Let’s assume it’s a 64 step pattern.

I want the beginning of the lfo shape to be on step 1. (Only the first time step 1 plays. This is the “trigger”. A once-only for the pattern).
I want the lfo to go for longer than 64 steps, but remain in sync (eg lfo length multiples of 64 like 128 or 256)

The idea is that i can use stacked square LFOs of different length multiples (or more accurately, a single custom lfo) to turn on fills/variations for say,
the last 8 steps of the 16th bar. You can kind of do this with conditionals like 4:4, but the limit is that you must have nothing playing on the steps for 1:4, 2:4, 3:4. Whereas if I say modulate transpose on the steps, it plays the normal note the first n times, then the transposed note the last time.
Most people would just write more patterns, but I am trying to do everything programmatically rather than as linear preconfigured paths.

Edit: side note: @Octagonist it’s weird that the lfo speed works that way as multiples of 4 being whole step numbers, but the arp speed is multiples of 6 for whole step numbers. One of my frustrations with the arp actually.

This is why I like choke tracks on the Rytm :slight_smile:

Microtiming.
Or
Neighbour machine.

@avlantis
If you utilize trig conditions, microtiming, trigless trigs, trigless locks, and possibly neighbour machines, you can achieve the results you want.

Check the manual, experiment. You’ll get there.

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Also you could use the arranger to programme a chain of 2 patterns?
Or just chain 2 patterns. Thats still programming.

I also struggled with this a few years ago. To trigger the lfo at start without retrigger it with trigs you need to use SYNC TRIG. But with this setting it starts again at each loop.
With FREE, it is not triggered at start.

I think I gave up and used different settings like FREE, but it was before trig conditions update ! Probably workarounds now (using 1 pattern).

EDIT : made a test, just an idea, maybe not suiting you, but after a test, I found a way to double length, with a 2nd lfo with opposite waveform, using a different lfo depth for lfo 1 and 2 on a trigless lock with 2:2 condition.

Step 1 triggering sample, lfo 1 depth = 127, lfo 2 depth = 0
Step 2, microtiming -23/384, lfo 1 depth = 0, lfo 2 depth = 127

Just an idea. Can’t test longer, adding more trigs may require more inverted trigless locks