Keeping midi clock in time for live sets

mrbenjamin · 2022-11-27T01:31:31.763Z

Hey folks! First post here. Wondering how you approach live sets. I write full tracks on the Digitakt and the MC-101. I intend to play a live set and go back and forth on the 2 units similar to a DJ setup. Problem is I lose sync when loading a new project. I have the 101 as the slave and the clock stays synced, but not on time. When playing a newly loaded project, I have to tap play “in time”, which is tricky to always get right. I’m considering the E-RM Midiclock to solve this but wondering how others approach live sets and if there’s a cheaper solution. TIA!

dtr · 2022-11-27T09:15:02.015Z

Either you put all tracks in one project or you do a stop & play after loading a project. Depending on music genre this could be viable or not.

mrbenjamin · 2022-11-27T19:09:30.795Z

That’s the realization I’ve come to. I less prefer the idea of putting all my tracks in one project on one machine, like the Digitakt. Feels limiting. But then again, limits can be good and there’s less room for error with one machine. Though relying on one machine for everything feels a little risky.

Feels like there’s an opportunity for someone to create a hybrid mixer / midi sync box for dawless live performance. Something to hold clock in sync like an E-RM box and also manage mixing, EQ’ing, etc.

Octagonist · 2022-11-27T19:42:27.639Z

mrbenjamin:

I less prefer the idea of putting all my tracks in one project on one machine, like the Digitakt. Feels limiting

Limiting how?

Zac_Kyoti · 2022-11-27T19:52:29.053Z

I vote for the E-RM. The ability to start and stop any of the connected hardware in time is great.

chaocrator · 2022-11-27T22:31:46.264Z

using as clock master something that does not stop sending clock.
can be:

Squarp Pyramid (this feature must be turned on manually in settings)
Circuit Tracks (once you don’t load another pack) or OG Circuit
Electribe 2
Axoloti
iPad with Drambo (MIDI only, since audio will make actual latency unpredictable)

mrbenjamin · 2022-11-28T01:35:35.475Z

Octagonist:

mrbenjamin:

I less prefer the idea of putting all my tracks in one project on one machine, like the Digitakt. Feels limiting

Limiting how?

On the Digitakt for instance, if I have one track per bank, there’s no way to mix the drums from one track with say the synth sound on a of another track. This could be pre-composed by combining the elements of two tracks onto one pattern. Don’t get me wrong, I know it can be done, but there’s a lot of setup and planning in advance and it leaves less options for spontaneity during a live set as opposed to working with full tracks on different machines…

Uija · 2022-11-28T05:48:25.190Z

I think having the live set in one project is what most people do, if they want to have them on the beat all the time, as you don’t have the ability to move the playhead around like you do on a turntable.
Having an external clock alone won’t resolve the issue of having to hit play in time, as a clock is just a fast and regular pulse and has nothing to do with song position.

The problem with mixing up parts from several songs is the reason people use loopers or additional samplers in their liveset. I use an OT in „the middle“, so I can quickly sample a 4-bar loop of what is currently playing and prepare/switch to the next song without the old one beeing interrupted and than use the Crossfades to slowly move over (or blend in) new parts until songs changed.

What you could also do is check if there are midi tools out there that might help (or if you are able to; build one your own).
As far as I understand, the E-RM midiclock does exactly what you might need. I you know a little bit about arduino, building a small box that does cue up midi-start comands to the next bar isn’t that big of a deal either.

Octagonist · 2022-11-28T08:14:22.939Z

mrbenjamin:

On the Digitakt for instance, if I have one track per bank, there’s no way to mix the drums from one track with say the synth sound on a of another track. T

You can’t do that if you have one project per song either.

mrbenjamin:

working with full tracks on different machines

I interpreted the suggestion from @dtr to mean “one project on each machine”, so that you don’t have to stop either sequencer, nor load any projects during the set. You can almost certainly do this on the Digitakt: 128 patterns is a lot of material. I can’t comment about the MC-101.

GurtTractor · 2022-11-28T09:03:47.250Z

Hello, I have a quick newbie question which is related to the topic, hope you don’t mind me piggybacking on this thread rather than making a new one.

I have a Digitone, Octatrack, and Axiom 61 keyboard. I also have a Faderfox controller going into the Octatrack. I’m trying to have both note input control from the Axiom and MIDI sync from the Octatrack going into the Digitone, but it seems that the Axiom doesn’t have MIDI thru as I think the input port is meant as an input into a PC via the USB. I could try Axiom > Faderfox > Octatrack > Digitone but i don’t know if that would work well, I’m not used to working with non-USB MIDI tbh.

Is my best option likely to be some kind of additional MIDI merger box or something? Or is there a way to achieve what I’m trying to do with what I have?

Octagonist · 2022-11-28T09:37:31.962Z

GurtTractor:

Is my best option likely to be some kind of additional MIDI merger box or something?

Almost certainly “yes”.

The OT has some merging ability. If you set it up such that one of the MIDI tracks sends to the Digitone’s Autio-Channel (or four OT MIDI Tracks send to each of the four Digitone’s track midi channels), then you can have the OT send clock and also send note data from the keyboard (by choosing the required OT Midi track). I think you’'d still need a merge to make use of the FaderFox in that set-up.

The FaderFox might have built-in MIDI merge. Check its manual and try: Axiom → FaderFox → OT → DN.

fffiiissshhh · 2022-11-28T09:55:38.066Z

more affordable alternative to the ERM here: https://www.midronome.com/
it’s kickstarter so no guarantees but looks like it should ship around march of next year

dtr · 2022-11-28T12:41:12.630Z

Octagonist:

I interpreted the suggestion from @dtr to mean “one project on each machine”,

Yes indeed. I have multiple sequencers running alongside each other in my live sets. No project loading.

GurtTractor · 2022-11-28T16:53:37.619Z

Oops accidentally deleted that.

Thanks that’s really helpful. I think I’m going to try Axiom > Faderfox UC4 > Octatrack > Digitone. Not sure if I can use the thru port on the OT to send tempo/transport sync, but I’ll experiment with the MIDI tracks and see what I can do.

Native_Layer · 2022-11-28T18:26:24.535Z

Hi,
I believe the Thru port is just a copy of the data coming into the Midi IN port of a device.
I know you can configure the Midi Out ports in the Analogs, I’m not sure you can on the OT. The Digitone is more likely to have configurable Midi Outs?

*Edited after reading properly

Native_Layer · 2022-11-28T18:27:38.872Z

Your username sounds very Trowbridge/Frome/Wiltshire to me
Love it.

GurtTractor · 2022-11-28T21:03:18.760Z

Did some experimenting and I think it’s a success thanks to your advice. I made a type b MIDI/minijack cable which connects the Axiom to the UC4 which then goes into the Octatrack which outputs to the Digitone. Using a MIDI track it was easy to route the keyboard channel through, and I seem to have full sync as well as keyboard control, great success

mrbenjamin · 2022-11-28T21:29:47.281Z

Uija:

I you know a little bit about arduino, building a small box that does cue up midi-start comands to the next bar isn’t that big of a deal either.

I’ve played around with Arduino and know enough to be dangerous. If this is easily achievable, It’d be great to pick your brain and get some basic direction here.

Uija · 2022-11-29T06:37:41.899Z

I use a Teensy for all my MIDI related products, as the MIDI and USB MIDI Implementation on that device are awesome. The 4.1 is even capable of USB Host without you doing much.
But: You have to do some soldering to have DIN Midi working:
Hot that is done, is documented on the Teensy page: MIDI Library, For Communication With Musical Instruments

Theoretically you have one Box send a clock, that you listen for in Arduino-Code. Knowing a little bit about MIDI Clock, it is sent 24 times per quarter note. So one bar would be 96 clock pulses.
As soon as you hit Play the first time, you send transport-start and start to count the pulses and reset that count if you reach 96. If you now hit Play again, you wait until you reset the bar-counter and send the transport-start at 0. That way you should sync the devices. If that does not work correctly (and the second device is lagging a tiny bit, you might send the start Before the first clock of the bar, so at 95.

Doing your own clock is a little bit more work. You need to add hardware to the controller to change and see the BPM. You then need to calculate the micoseconds that elapse per clock-pulse and set a interrupt-timer for that:
IntervalTimer timer;
timer.begin(callbackFunction, yourNumberOfMicosecondsPerPulse);

In that callback function you handle the same as you did as reaction on clock pulses and as the code is master-clock now, send a clock pulse yourself.

mrbenjamin · 2022-12-01T00:09:23.582Z

Uija:

You have to do some soldering to have DIN Midi working:

I can handle that! Thanks for all the info here Uija. I really appreciate it. I’ll try to take a stab at this hopefully with some help from a friend.