Jomox Mbase for kicks. Worth it?... or is it overcomplicating?

The Lounge Other Gear
#21

The Mbase 11 is gold for a KIck universum IMO. I use it in conjunction with MD and Rytm. It manages perfect from soft and big belly (808) to thundering (909) and a lot between. I use it within Ableton Live and a dedicated MAX4Live controller, which is totally recommended -> http://maxforlive.com/library/device/2619/jomox-mbase11-controller

-total recal in the project
-super to edit kicks fast and efficient.
but sadly a 128 step resolution. editing on the mbase itself offers finer adjustments (edit ruff in the editor, then fine on the mbase, save it - ready)

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#22

Dunno what the fuzz is about Jomox kicks either…

Oh… I make techno as well…

#23

If you want to design your own perfect kicks, get software like ‘Kick 2’ . Completely worth it and you can get into so much detail to get the kick you desire.

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#24

On the TR-8S you can put any bass drum (or sample) on any channel, and set channels to automatically trig off another. So you can have layered kicks with a single kick pattern in the sequencer. And have different filter/EQ/comp/drive on each sound. It’s great.

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#25

LOL, was just looking at the MBase 11 all day yesterday…definitely on my shortlist…kind of gassing for a Jomox drum machine now though. :expressionless:

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#26

Yes! I love the TR8-S. I was so close to getting the TT606, then held out after seeing the TR8-S press release (All the TR drumkits ACB for less that 1000$??? no brainer) For some reason , influenced by my happy times with my octatrack I thought nah get an elektron drum machine… couldnt find a used machinedrum and ended up buying an AR mk1 which was DOA, then I replaced it with a AR mkII, no surprises what happened there… so in the end I got the TR8-S and it is absolutely brilliant! best drum machine out there in my opinion does exactly what it needs to, and it sounds so damn good!
Layered kicks… OOOF!

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#27

Recent things that I’ve like s in terms of kicks are from punchbox , trk from native instruments , the hora modules in vcv rack.
And I think ultra kick by isotonic was good.
Hardware , rytm and analog4 though I end up making samples and dropping into something else.

I’ve got volca kick , sounded nice , cheap , and can do nice bass noises too.

#28

i own a MBase 11 and i would say YES. you can create really nice Kicks with it, with enough bass on the bottom end. but the MIDI implementation is not really well done. triggering the MB over midi with a Machinedrum or Monomachine as a example sometimes works, sometimes it doesn’t. but the good thing is, as you might know already, the MB has also a Audio Trigger input which works really fine.

#29

i think it is possible to adjust the pitch envelope decay time.

triggering via Midi from the Octatrack works seamlessly for me (recent model MBase 11 purchased nearly a year ago).

the ‘compressor’ effect seems very subtle to the point of nonexistent.

the inclusion of a bass/mid/treble shelving EQ would have made the unit so much more immediately usable, and for this reason i think maybe the key to using the MBase effectively is to sound-design with the immediate intention of sampling direct to the Octatrack, doing some extra work (applying a DJ EQ effect and Compression, or the Filter harmonic overdrive) … then trimming the sample to get the tail of the sound super tight;
sequencing with the treated ‘new’ version using an audio track’s xox sequencing on the Octatrack, possibly layered with an internal synthesis kick from the Machinedrum.

this is all theoretical musings on accessing the MBase potential for greatness…
Currently, my track-record of incompetence at utilising the MBase 11 is a semi-regular source of frustration.

but then again, why worry? if other sounds feel more natural to work with at this time then “go with the flow”, as they say.

i have a feeling the MBase really would come into its own when playing a big gig, large soundsystem, custom-tweaking the shape-dynamic of the pulse to match the energy of the crowd and venue.

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#30

If your eurorack inclined, try AudioDamage Boomtschak, very versatile and very fat.

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#31

I really dig the mbase 11, its great for dark indrustral techno and most techno. The compression is more noticible on longer decay. The compression affect the curve of the decay and is a very good way to get controll on the pitch enevlope a bit.

The 888 has pitch envelope adjustment you can change the the 999 to the 888 with firm ware update. The alpha base has even more controlls of a extra pitch enevlope with attack, decay, and level. Id say it the most verstile jomox kick.

You can also use and lfo make the mbase adjust pitch envlope. I forget the setting but i can act as a one shot lfo making it a adjustable pitch envlope.

If it had a filter like on the rytm it would make it really great for almost any kick.

#32

I meant Tune. :wink:
Tune has fixed decay, as stated in the manual. Pitch can be modulated with the Lfo. I tried to modulate Tune without success. Pitch modulation didn’t help either.
Decay parameter concerns amp envelope.
Just not for me. :slight_smile:

3.1. Tune < 000-255 > This parameter determines the intensity of tune change. On a synthesizer this would be the pitch envelope modulation intensity (Attack=0, Decay fixed adjusted) of the VCO. A high value makes the typical 909 kick-in-the-gut effect, and a low value makes softer, 808styled kick drums and bass tones.

3.2. Pitch < 000-255 > This parameter determines the basic pitch of the bass drum. Sub basses down to 10 Hz or relatively high tones are possible. Don’t mistake this with the Tune parameter. With most kinds of instruments this parameter is called “tune”, but because everybody knows the 909 and its specific tune, we called it pitch.

3.3. Decay < 000-255 > Controls the decay time (length) of the kick drum.

#33

Funny I never liked jomox kicks, I always found them too hard and not in a good way, the envelope responses seem wrong to my ears (I say the same about the AR bd machines too) the decays don’t sound natural, almost like AHD envelopes rather than AD, and the hold phase seems too long. I guess for hardstyle trance or tekno tekno tekno they are probably ideal, but I much prefer Roland TR-808/606/707/909 in that order for techno.

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#34

my favourite bassdrum sample five years ago was a super yummy jomox bassdrum sample from a handful of free promo pack demo’s, i don’t remember where from.

the sample was perfection for tuff trip hop … i presumed it was from the MBase although might just as easily been sampled from the 888 or 999.

i’ve toyed with the idea of selling it and yet still remain hopeful that possibly i could somehow unlock the variety of multi-genre usability sound-design potential.

really like the vibe of the AudioDamage Boomtschak although it’s discontinued and no-one is selling their unit.

i’m thinking that possibly a used GE7B from the 1980’s might be the secret ingredient to making MBase sound the way i hope it could.

Sample to the OT, and then using the OT’s Menu Screen to access the Filter effect Overdrive.

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if that doesn’t work then possibly sample the trimmed version of an MBase sample from the Octatrack to the Machinedrum and use the Single Band Peak EQ, subtle filter, Volume at midday, Master Volume at 3pm, Dynamix compression and Master EQ effects to locate the fabulous frequency ratio.

#35

I once owned an MBase. Quite potent little Machine. Definitely delivers earth shaking Bassdrums thanks to its analog Sine Wave.

Adds metallic sounding Harmonics too fast for my taste. Did not like that. But has some Sweetspots worth exploring if you treat it with care. Can also be used as a little Bass Synth with limited Note Range.

I would see the MBase as a great Starting Point for Layering. It delivers the solid foundation you need for a very nice layered Kick and due to its metallic overtone Character it can also be used as a Percussion Generator. Worth a try. For sure!

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#36

just trying the software now and completely loving it.
the sound!
the interface!

it’s funny or perhaps ironic, observing the oscillation between being a staunch analogue circuitry purist and then becoming a partial software appreciator. an emotional state of mind or maybe just a creative preference dispositional repositioning.

if the Boomtschak were available though it would be more of an ambivalent situation.
but for now, Drum2 is totally doing it for me.
sometimes, an application just really captures something special in workflow and results.
and thankfully, the price is nice.

although when it comes to synthesizers, i don’t think any software could lure me away from the se02 nor the OB-6.

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#37

yes, the idea of layering is really cool, although i must admit that it still confuses me.
layering two bass synth patches is second nature, very easy… and yet bass drums, i don’t know where to start nor what to do.

it’s interesting about the metallic harmonic parameter option. at zero, it is the same as the parameter sound component of the MBase 1. the rest of the values change electronic digital bits around like a kaleidoscope, so each number is completely different to the next in line.

not sure if i should sell my unit or not atm. thinking of it.

#38

Layering is actually quite simple. You need the Bass Foundation (which the MBase delivers for sure) and then you need an Attack Portion on top. You can use another Kick for that; with a High Pass Filter applied. This is like removing the fundament of an existing Kick Drum and replacing it with better, a heavier one. But this is also not true layering yet.

It gets more interesting if you use the Bass Foundation, strip away its Attack Portion with a Low Pass Filter, add a different Attack portion on top (coming from a Synth with a Pitch Envelope applied, for example. Which is High Pass Filtered again) and now you place something in between these two Sounds. A Snare Drum for example which you strip off with a Bandpass Filter and place it by boosting frequencies in the area where the two other Sounds separate from each other. This creates a bridge between them and can lead to very interesting Kicks. Its a lot of work though. Finding these Frequency “Sweet” Spots can become a tedious task. But with the right fundament it can be worth it. And i would absolutely trust that MBase in delivering this fundament.

Keep it if you dont need the money. Its still very usable in a lot of situations!

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#39

it’s so fascinating how the mention of financial energy is a potential distraction - a potential thought avenue different and yet related - to almost the entirety of the valuable technique orientation information in your valuable reply!

thinking about the relevant topic of discussion … layering … i just realised how much more achievable this is with the OT’s amplitude envelope and Audio Editor Trim Start position.
Machinedrum, although legendary, doesn’t offer this much articulation.

the “bridging” in-between sound of the Snare Drum … pure gold!
not only but also, the OT’s micro timing Trig Offset could also help with adjusting the placement of this midway sonic construction element.

i guess a well-chosen Snare sample could do the job, a Machinedrum Snare synthesis machine, or maybe even design a bridging Snare on the OB-6.
might need to visit the OB-6 forum to ask for help with such a task.

interestingly, my recent research on how, when, why, where and what reverb to reinforce HiHats in relation to a kit is somehow making this layering technique for bassdrums somehow more comprehensible and logical.

the software “Kick 2” is very much a deeply valuable drum design factor, really glad to have discovered this due to Mr. Mech’s suggestion.
also the Machinedrum’s synthesis bassdrum machines hold much value, even though direct pitch tuning is on a different, undefined system. that makes a lot of sense in relation to how they work with the pitch ramp… whereas in software, the pitch ramp is adequately definable via quite a large onscreen display.

as always, the ears have it - or not. depends on the time of day or night and how long the work session has gone for.
the same bassdrum might emote a particular pitch to the perception in the afternoon,
whilst the very same sound a few hours later could then relate to a different tonic base… often influenced by what other sounds are playing alongside.

all the same, very glad to say the MBase 11 is retaining a place in the studio.
a very characterful instrument to say the least.
those metallic harmonics are still pretty trippy though.
i’m learning how to adjust my attitude regarding the MBase 11.
more like a raw material to be refined in the foundry of the Octatrack.

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#40

do you know BazzISM? really nice kickdrum synth plugin for minimal techno and trancy stuff

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