Issues getting OT and Digitone to play nicely together with external gear


#1

Struggling to get OT and Digitone to play nicely with external gear.

I particular, I cannot get OT cc messages to be passed on to external gear. I have OT going into DT and a midi splitter, then into other external gear. It passes through midi notes, e.g. I can play the Volca Kick and Minilogue chromatically from the OT.

Is there a bug related to Digitone not passing through cc:s? Have looked through forums but it seems to be mostly about issues with DT and OT sending/receiving CC between each other.

Have checked the settings, i.e. OT sending on channel 11 (the Volca Kick channel), DT midi track 1 listening on channel 11 (through the MIDI settings/ports menu on DT, and then DN midi track sending to channel 11… However ccs don’t come through when I change them on OT.

The DN sends cc just fine to any of the connected gear, and I’ve plugged the OT directly into synths etc to confirm there is no issue with what the OT sends

My issue is I want to use the three LFOs on the OT, but prefer the sequencing work flow of the DN… so need cc:s etc to be sendable from both.

Any ideas? Still holding out hope for user error!! DN midi settings here: https://youtu.be/qjHIFad1TN8

Cheers


#2

Does your midi splitter support cc’s or just note data? Have you tried sending the OT through the splitter to prove the splitter passes midi cc? Just a thought.


#3

Thanks for that. I’m using Kenton 1-to-5 splitter, which supports cc… (I actually have two such boxes - OT going into one splitter, then from that one cable to BIM, the other to DN which then goes to another splitter and onto other gear … and no problems controlling BIM with cc).

Hmmm…


#4

consider the midi thru of the dn. the midi out of the dn will not mirror/merge the messages from ot (dn midi in)

please provide more precise description of signal flow… e.g. is the splitter before the dn midi in?


#5

Was just thinking aloud really. I use a MOTU MTP AV and it’s got a pretty in depth MIDI filter per channel or input. Just wondered in one particular input was filtered to reject cc but it sounds the issue lives outside the splitter.


#6

Thanks everybody, yes good thinking on the cc filtering… attaching a picture to clarify. BIM receives cc from OT, and Volca receives cc from DN, so I know both splitters pass on cc.

Re using the midi through on DT, if I connect in this wasy, the ccs from the OT do indeed pass on to the external gear, however then I’m not able to sequence this gear from the DN, which is what I’m looking for (basically i want to use OT LFOs, but DN sequencer).

It would seem strange if the DN filtered ccs without an option to switch this off?

Thanks again


#7


#8

Devices where the MIDI OUT functions as kind of “augmented” MIDI THRU are quite rare.

I would use a MIDI merge box after the DN to combine its MIDI THRU port with its MIDI OUT port (of course only when you need both MIDI streams combined).


#9

thanks, much clearer now.

you dont need the the first splitter if you connect bim midi in to dn midi thru, which mirrors dn midi in (comming from ot out)

this is the part that is not possible in the elektron device, i think. the midi in stuff is not forwarded to midi out.

you could use a merge box for ot and dn, as @tnussb suggested. i would try to sequence them only from dn first, should also be possible to send lfos from dn. use multiple midi tracks to the same midi channel should give you plenty of options


#10

Cheers for helpful comments!

You learn something new every day. Didn’t know that passing on cc wasn’t standard - previous setup was MPC1000 -> OT -> Zaquencer -> gear, and those things all passed on cc (but had options for filtering).

I tried the setup with a midi merger (found an old midisport 2x2), and set it up as below. This works in the sense that ccs can be sent from either DN or OT, however the midi sync is all over the place. I’m guessing it is because e.g. Tanzmaus now receives a clock from OT and in parallel a clock from DN?

However if I switch off ‘send clock’ on DN, I get the same effect. clock is highly unstable, and if I stop the all sequencer and just trigger e.g. a snare on the Tanz, it sort of double triggers most of the time (whether I’m triggering from OT midi track or DN midi track.

Since notes are passed on through the DN, I thought ccs were as well. Would be useful to have this as something that can be switched on or off - I will submit this as a suggestion to Elektron. Something we can hope for or is the midi protocol itself so unstable that the risks of conflicting cc etc is too high?


#11


#12

You want to do things that MIDI wasn’t designed to do. It wasn’t originally designed to have multiple masters sending to one slave. There are now MIDI mergers for that but YMMV, as you’re experiencing. Perhaps another type of merger will do a better job but it’s not guaranteed.

Best strategy with MIDI is to have just one device sending control data to another. You can still create sub nets by strategically using the MIDI OUT and THRU on devices.

As said above, THRU passes anything received in MIDI IN. OUT will send whatever the device is configured to output as MIDI. Combining these is a special function on some devices, not standard MIDI.


#13

Very interesting - and makes sense - thanks all. I guess because the OT, and the Zaquencer passed on cc I thought it was a pretty standard thing to do. But I guess the BCR2000 hardware / Zaquencer firmware are pretty simple things cf the DN i.e. less chance of midi message conflicts (e.g. the Zaq only sends 2 ccs on any channel at any time - btw v. cool if bulky piece of gear IMO). And the OT is of course fully featured than the DN on midi, I sort of knew that, so perhaps not strange that it can pass on ccs.

Having said that, if there is a way to implement a stable midi cc pass-through on the DN it would be great - I will email elektron and if there is a response post it here.


#14

As already mentioned, the concept of passing through midi uses the thru port. It mimics all data arriving at the in port. The out port is generally for any midi data generated by the synth itself and as any cc appearing at the input isn’t generated by the synth itself it won’t be transmitted via the out port. The odd synth may do this but is unusual in the midi world. More common is a soft thru whereby you can assign one of the ports to either be a thru or out. Maybe there’s some confusion around this?