Is your gear controlling you?

Ojo · 2023-04-30T09:20:32.066Z

I guess a year isn’t that long to be using the Elektrons so I can see why OP would still be drawn to Elektron specific tricks.

Nothing saying you can’t do 1 and 2. I’m not sure why it would have to be one or the other.

Fin25 · 2023-04-30T09:22:41.653Z

micabeza:

It’s the laptop and Ableton, isn’t it?

I have sacked off Ableton, but not the laptop.

Mistercharlie · 2023-04-30T09:32:08.794Z

Everything influences how you play. An extreme example is the difference between a drumkit and a guitar.

But how about guitar vs piano? On piano you can play bass, chords and melodies together. On guitar you can’t, but you can bend strings, and play barre chords.

Squarepusher wrote an essay on this exact subject:

“Collaborating with machines” by Tom Jenkinson

And here’s the Elektronauts discussion:

Tom Jenkinson (Squarepusher) essay on musicians and machines General Discussion

I enjoyed the read, not sure whether it’s been shared here http://symbioid.com/pdf/Tech/Collaborating%20with%20Machines%20-%20Jenkinson.pdf?view=FitH

natehorn · 2023-04-30T09:58:18.548Z

I think it’s less about control and more about affordance. This is an important quality in design and factors into instruments in a very tangible way. A piece of hardware doesn’t force you to work a certain way but it probably affords it.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Affordance

In psychology, affordance is what the environment offers the individual. In design, affordance has a narrower meaning, it refers to possible actions that an actor can readily perceive. American psychologist James J. Gibson coined the term in his 1966 book, The Senses Considered as Perceptual Systems, and it occurs in many of his earlier essays. His best-known definition is from his 1979 book, The Ecological Approach to Visual Perception:.mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1...

The more flexibility a system has then generally speaking the less it affords. Objects with prominent affordance can also sometimes be described as ‘opinionated’.

I like ‘real world’ examples of this - one I was taught early in my career was around bus stops. You make one out of glass it will get smashed, if it’s made of wood it will be drawn on. You can smash wood and you can draw on glass but the materials lend to different kinds of interaction which determine how people interact with them.

Instruments are the same - you can play a modular with an 88-key keyboard and you can step sequence a Juno-106, but there’s a good chance that most people wont do either. Nothing is forcing that interaction but it is afforded.

Monobear · 2023-04-30T10:24:37.823Z

Always have a simple acoustic Instrument that you can grab. Does not need power or problem solving.

Fin25 · 2023-04-30T10:30:16.259Z

What are you, some sort of hippy?

Monobear · 2023-04-30T10:32:59.124Z

I think its called hippie but no.

Octagonist · 2023-04-30T10:46:17.862Z

Pianos don’t have vibrato. Guitars can’t play slow attacks. Saxophones can’t make minor 7th chords unless you have four of them. Harpsichord only has one loudness level. Digerido is the only pre-electronics instrument to include filter sweeps in its tonal vocabulary.

Technology has always dictated the modes of expression; it doesn’t have to dictate the feelings expressed.

Fin25 · 2023-04-30T11:32:23.533Z

Monobear:

I think its called hippie

Not in England it ain’t.

generalkustard · 2023-04-30T11:41:11.761Z

Octagonist:

Guitars can’t play slow attacks

Allan Holdsworth

Octagonist · 2023-04-30T11:50:37.901Z

generalkustard:

Allan Holdsworth

I’ll have to check him out…

what_lives · 2023-04-30T12:05:27.564Z

Octagonist:

Guitars can’t play slow attacks.

Unless you use a volume pedal. Or simply rock the volume knob while playing.

I get your point, though.

Jeanne · 2023-04-30T12:24:32.093Z

I impose my will on the gear.

elxsound · 2023-04-30T12:36:46.512Z

I like the timing of this thread… this weekend, and likely through the week I’m trying out generative music techniques with modular.

This is all about deep diving what I have and to get out of my comfort zone. I’m pushing to learn new techniques, and experiment with different styles (I tried ambient about a week ago) with the goal of having more freedom easily to create whatever I hear when ideas spark.

I never felt that gear forced me play a certain way. Different gear has different workflows but working around limitations can be one of the most creative sparks.

Making covers of other songs is absolutely a great way to find the limitations and the workarounds.

Monobear · 2023-04-30T12:51:24.722Z

Yeah but England also still has King Charles so…

cutlery · 2023-04-30T12:55:47.404Z

I think it is impossible to create entirely unconstrained by tools; whatever the medium or tools may be.

Moreover, the more a creator is able to do that, (and, to the extent they can create while utterly unconstrained by convention as well as technique), the closer to the desert of absolute freedom (that Jenkinson mentions) they will be.

You only have so much decision power in a given day, it is sometimes efficient to cede some of that decision power to guardrails that already exist from your tools.

CCMP · 2023-04-30T13:22:42.943Z

The key thing is ‘what is your objective?’.

There are really only 2 options;

To have fun and entertain yourself, less fks need to be given.
To entertain others and/or stimulate them emotionally, as an artist… then fks do need to be given and you need to find a way of expressing yourself(and your own personality) through your music and the gear you choose to use.

…

People get into quandaries (like this thread) when they’re hanging between 1.01 to 1.99.
The quicker you can land at 1 or 2 the better.

If you’re making music with specific gear, let’s say it’s a Digitone… then it’s ‘voice’ is already widely known to others, way more than yours as an individual… so you have work to do to sound unique.

If you use your own speaking/singing voice in recordings, it’s instantly your own and unique to you, so it’ll carry your unique personality/signature from the off.
With using gear it takes more music to establish your own voice… you need a body of work to let that voice/style/signature come through and for you to overpower the gear.

GurtTractor · 2023-04-30T13:35:28.241Z

I have a slightly different philosophy about creating music/art and I think there’s a third possible objective: Sometimes you feel that something just needs to exist, and you have to create it. What you create may or may not give you or others enjoyment, but that’s not the point, entertainment is a side condition. It’s not really about Us, but about adding to something bigger. Really good art takes on a life of its own beyond any individual. Just my 2 pence FWIW.

PeteSasqwax · 2023-04-30T14:04:59.155Z

GurtTractor:

Sometimes you feel that something just needs to exist, and you have to create it.

I do massively feel like this, but I also seek to make it because I want to hear what it sounds like. It’s sort of an experiment, to a degree: I want to hear the outcome of combining X elements with Y approach and Z effects

Hooked · 2023-04-30T15:08:58.342Z

CCMP:

If you’re making music with specific gear, let’s say it’s a Digitone… then it’s ‘voice’ is already widely known to others, way more than yours as an individual… so you have work to do to sound unique

Exactly