Is the second hand market over-saturated?

HBIII · 2023-12-02T15:50:36.517Z

Yup, selling gear for sure sucks now, so I have stopped buying anything I am not 100% sure I am going to keep. Glad I got to experiment and find out what I liked before it was like this.

As older millennials me and my wife have always been just on the verge of being screwed over by the economy etc., but have always barely slipped by before things went to shit. Graduated right before crash of 2008, bought a house right before pandemic, got a raise right before grocery prices quadrupled, etc. And figured out what gear I liked just before it was impossible to resell lol. I have a lot of empathy for people younger than us :-(.

Sternenlicht · 2023-12-02T16:03:24.230Z

Hmm, i disagree on the sequential stuff, its HQ stuff, and expensive… so not so widespread to find. So that exclusivity will make them sought after in 30 years. Not comparable to 400€ korgs.

bangonadigi · 2023-12-02T16:09:44.420Z

Honestly prices should be going down. The gear market was in a bubble during the pandemic and tons of new gear came out, yet people have less time due to work and less free money to spend due to inflation. I still see people trying to sell used MPC 1000s for near $1000 on Reverb, overpriced old generation SP 404s, etc. That gear lacks the convenience of modern connectivity and has no special sound or workflow at the end of the day. I think prices should and will fall more next year, except for items that are actually scarce like older generation Elektrons.

bangonadigi · 2023-12-02T16:14:47.066Z

If you make some offers you might be surprised.

Acidizer · 2023-12-02T16:46:25.019Z

Reverb prices are ridiculous people selling used gear for near-new prices. I always price mine much lower and get the sale within days. I see competing stuff siting on there for 9 months. I think sellers got greedy and lost perspective, not the buyers market drying up.

Why wouldn’t I lay down an extra hundred and get it brand new with piece of mind?

thermionic · 2023-12-02T16:47:49.067Z

shigginpit:

I don’t even know how you formulate a going price on gear that isn’t moving anywhere

Start at the low-not-lowest end of sold and cut from there.

m0ld · 2023-12-02T16:54:23.908Z

Acidizer:

Why wouldn’t I lay down an extra hundred and get it brand new with piece of mind?

This is more or less why I’ve stopped buying used gear for the most part. I am willing to spend an extra hundred or two to get a warranty, return policy, support, and the knowledge that the thing I’m buying wasn’t trapped in a room with a chain smoker who drops things constantly. If the discount isn’t at least 25 or 30%, I’m not buying used (with exceptions for rare items).

vasidudu · 2023-12-02T16:55:11.911Z

KingMidas:

perfect storms of disruption coming soon to ALL markets

Absolutely.

Bunker · 2023-12-02T16:56:51.770Z

I suppose it depends on what you class as exclusive. If they stopped making the P5 tomorrow I’d agree that future second hand prices would be high but it’s currently in production and if YouTube vids and forum posts are anything to go by they seem pretty popular and there are plenty in the wild. Roll on 5 years and if it’s still in production then there will in all probability be plenty out there. Not as many as £400 Korg’s but the vintage models will always command a higher price. The numbers of reissue ones alone will drive second hand prices down. I can’t see a time when they command more second hand that you can buy one for new. Obv expense and value are subjective things too . Time will tell but I’d suggest the equivalent boards in years to come in terms of rarity will be stuff like the Mask 1 and GS 3rd wave. But that will all depend on numbers sold (and how long they’re available for new)

Scyphozoa · 2023-12-02T17:10:23.206Z

m0ld:

and the knowledge that the thing I’m buying wasn’t trapped in a room with a chain smoker

I just imported some vintage hardware from Japan that was listed as being refurbished, in excellent condition - and it is, except for the fact that all the rubber parts smell strongly of tobacco and it took two days before my hands stopped smelling of it after wiping it down with isopropyl, and using it once.

Never again.

shigginpit · 2023-12-02T17:28:47.775Z

If it’s silicone pad sheets, for my SP202 I had to bake them at a low temperature and then wash with dish soap to release the odor/oil. When all my other tricks failed, I read about it online, mostly related to cookware that had taken on strong odors.

I’d confirm it’s made of silicone first, but despite my skepticism worked like a charm.

By pad sheets, I mean like this (fwiw):

m0ld · 2023-12-02T17:54:51.701Z

Scyphozoa:

and it took two days before my hands stopped smelling of it after wiping it down and using it once.

That’s absolutely disgusting, yikes. Hope you can get it deodorized! I’ve not had the problem yet but I’m always worried my next used purchase will be the one.

Landings · 2023-12-02T18:05:44.387Z

The first rule of Gear Club is Don’t Sell

Scyphozoa · 2023-12-02T18:32:41.687Z

m0ld:

That’s absolutely disgusting, yikes. Hope you can get it deodorized! I’ve not had the problem yet but I’m always worried my next used purchase will be the one.

I was surprised at how pervasive it was.

It’s a Yamaha QY70, and I had already used orange oil to remove a disintegrating foam pad from the battery door (no big deal) so my hands were smelling of that first (but that stuff smells nice).

After then wiping it down with isopropyl alcohol and thinking it might be okay, I used it for an hour or two. It seemed to get worse again as it was used/heated up.
I tried all kinds of soaps on my hands - bar soap, gel soaps, and mechanic soap - and a few hours later I’d get this faint smell of tobacco on my fingers again after the soap’s scent had disappeared. Nightmare.

I’ve heard that disassembly is complex (it’s a handheld device with multiple PCBs, from the '90s) and that the pads are quite fragile - so I’m hesitant to try baking and washing them when it’s in good working condition.

At this point, it’s sitting in two layers of plastic bags and I think I’m going to have to take a loss to get rid of it (because I will be listing this in its condition).

obscurerobot · 2023-12-02T18:37:13.894Z

KingMidas:

My advice is to save, invest and spend very wisely. Personally, im tightening the belt on all expenditures. Investment wise, im going way Bullish on Love, Empathy, Compassion and Art.

I strongly agree with all of this. If your financial situation is solid and you have done your homework, this is a great time to pick up bargains on older gear that is unfairly unloved. But it’s also a great time to hand off gear to your friend who is in a tight situation rather than try to squeeze out another $50 on Craigslist. Kindness always pays off, and I have never regretted selling stuff cheap.

Scyphozoa:

I just imported some vintage hardware from Japan that was listed as being refurbished, in excellent condition - and it is, except for the fact that all the rubber parts smell strongly of tobacco and it took two days before my hands stopped smelling of it after wiping it down with isopropyl, and using it once.

Never again.

I bought a second hand Adaptec 1542B SCSI card in '93 or maybe '94, and it reeked of tobacco. Not a big deal since I put the card into my computer and the box inside another box. But I held on to the card and package until 2016 or so when I finally sent it to recycling, and it still smelled of nicotine.

2CA13C38-29D8-471C-9EF3-8F53C551300E_1_105_c1024×768 199 KB

Smoking is common enough in Japan that midrange hotels and train stations often have smoking rooms where you can hotbox with the other nicotine enthusiasts. They are usually packed, and I was only able to get a photo of the one above empty because I woke up at 3AM due to jet lag.

Interestingly, I didn’t notice any tobacco smell when I walked through the music shops in Ochanomizu (Tokyo), but I usually notice tobacco smell in US thrift stores. I’m planning on buying some second hand camera gear in Japan next spring, so will pay closer attention to smells.

Scyphozoa:

At this point, it’s sitting in two layers of plastic bags and I think I’m going to have to take a loss to get rid of it (because I will be listing this in its condition).

You might put an open box of baking soda in the bag with the QY70, but that is likely to just reduce rather than eliminate odor. It is likely that all of the internal surfaces are coated. You probably need to disassemble and clean everything individually with high proof alcohol. At that point, you are probably putting in enough labor to have bought a new MC-707 instead.

Scyphozoa · 2023-12-02T18:45:51.087Z

obscurerobot:

You might put an open box of baking soda in the bag with the QY70, but that is likely to just reduce rather than eliminate odor. It is likely that all of the internal surfaces are coated. You probably need to disassemble and clean everything individually with high proof alcohol. At that point, you are probably putting in enough labor to have bought a new MC-707 instead.

I’ve not had much success with that in the past - even when it has not been tobacco/nicotine.

As you say, the issue with nicotine is that it actually coats the device, inside and out - so every surface has to be thoroughly cleaned (if you can even get it out of the rubber pads).

chiasticon · 2023-12-02T21:09:53.445Z

I got a Buchla module recently that reeked of nicotine. first time I’d gotten a smokey smelling piece of gear in years. I’m usually very careful to ask about that before purchase, if they don’t mention it. somehow I’d forgotten to this time. I didn’t cause a stink (pun intended) over it because the seller had accepted my lower offer; also I felt kinda stupid and mad at myself at that point, because I had spoken directly with him and not asked.

but man… there’s nothing like that punch in the face of nicotine stink you get when you unfurl the bubble wrap!

VNCT · 2023-12-02T23:06:58.574Z

def seems that way, been trading gear for 25 years, synths for almost ten. it is however a buyers market tho a lot of unexperienced sellers whether that be new musicians or older ones coming out of the woodwork to liquidate who aren’t very savvy to the market.

bwo · 2023-12-03T01:36:36.848Z

Yeah often with new stuff people can get it on sale and then sell it for less, and then the next person might pass it on for a bit less… I think the whole scalper mentality has leaked into the online used markets. Vintage VAs seems to be the current synths on the rise… pretty much all the great ones are a bit too expensive to be worth while at this point imo. I was looking at the waldorf Q Rack recently and every single one on reverb was asking like 500$ more that they had sold for in years.

Munro · 2024-01-05T08:39:16.187Z

The fees doubled when Etsy bought reverb. So sellers lose a lot more money on each sale, thus prices have gone up.

It’s the greedy platforms that are part of the issue.