There’s a detune parameter, though?
1 Like
Exactly, I’m not sure where all the worry about the ratio’s is coming from. To get to impure ratios, use detune
1 Like
I haven’t used a DN yet, so I can’t be sure, but I do think that the ratios it allows you to step through have been chosen to give you tonally pleasing results. You can then use the detune knob to detune the modulators to go from subtle beating to more inharmonic results.
The problem is that if you use a continues control, then the “wrong” would take up 99% of the parameter range under that control, making the “right” very hard to find and dial in.
Add to this that there’s very little variation in the “wrong” (at least in the perception of most people), and you’d end up in a situation where you have a knob that doesn’t do much useful for the majority of users. 
4 Likes
I used to make fm synths in Reaktor for a long time working entirely in the pitch space. I was never sure why my fm sounded so dirty. It wasn’t until I realized you had to use pitch->frequency conversion and use a constant to make the pitch as close to 0hz as possible. When you start working in frequency ratios, rather than equal temperament pitch offsets, everything came into focus and I started getting those dx style linear fm sounds. Having continuous control over operator frequency isn’t as useful for fm as having quick access to a list of ratios that have interesting mathematical relationships between each other. Which is why they prioritize the ratios but give you access to the “in between” frequencies via a detune parameter.
10 Likes
Powerful FM synths like the mighty Nord modular have a selection toggle available for its operator (or oscillator) frequencies. It’s awesome as it gives you the option of harmonic or inharmonic FM. You can toggle between:
Freq in Hz
Freq in semi tones
Freq in harmonic ratios
Don’t own Digitone but from what I can gather from the feedback here it’s only allowing the 3rd option above? If so Elektron should implement a similar feature
1 Like
I don’t think they designed the Digitone as the most powerful FM synth possible.
4 Likes
is the ‘purity’ of a ratio something you can qualify? or is it just less harmonic / consonant / mathematically ‘sound’ ?
Sure, by pure ratios I mean simple relationships like 1/2 or 3/1 and the like. Integer multiples of the base frequency (1) results in the harmonic series which is very useful for synthesis, especially when trying to create stable periodic waveforms. The harmonics that results from those ratios can nicely mimic the spectrum of natural instruments, which is why fm was so much better at emulating them than subtractive methods were.
This short interview talks a bit about the mathematics and the importance/usefulness of some of the ratios. https://www.elektronauts.com/talk/120
So the simple ratios are useful for harmonic spectra and increasing the complexity of that relationship results in increasingly inharmonic results.
I appreciate the thorough follow-up, as well as others’ responses. I should definitely be doing more reading, and less thinking I’ve some notion of how FM (or phase modulation) synthesis works. I was worried there might be some kind of system that prevented achieving really raw/wicked phase modulation sounds, juicy frequency combinations, and other, more “electro-” sorts of sounds, like AFX bass on the tracks XMAS_EVET_10 and 4 bit 9d… off of Syro. Ultra- sounding / “electronic” bass sounds etc. Thanks for the link.
3 Likes
I expect the DN will be able to nail those bass sounds you are referencing. Those sound very DX to me, which uses the same concept
1 Like
These boxes together are powerful. Excellent song crafting there!!
2 Likes
I appreciate the examples! However, I still think there’s a lot of useful territory in there. I agree that for the most part people will make best use of the preset ratios, but for those who’d like a little more room to explore it would be nice to have the option to toggle between smooth and stepped. Or alternatively an option where the detune is linked to the ratio control so that it seamlessly wraps from the end of one limit to the beginning of the next.
1 Like
For the record — I miss FX tracks WAY more than I miss song mode. Hopefully Elektron will see fit to implement some midi loopback machines. IE. a CTR-AL machine/ CTR-FX machine, etc.
1 Like
Can‘t you already do that with Midi Out->Midi In?
1 Like
It’s my understanding (my bandmate is the takt owner), that 1. it’s crash prone to do this. 2. thru also doesn’t seem to work, so you can’t use it as your masterclock, which sucks b/c it’s the device that recalls tempo per pattern.
Nice track by CO5MA there. I don’t think it would have happened if he had to create all the FM sounds in Operator first.
A few years back on the old Loopers Delight mailing list (now that’s old school!) there was a friendly debate over using Octatrack vs. Ableton Live. The Live guy of course put forth the classic “software can do ANYTHING!” argument, but once they dug into the weeds, he had to concede the Octatrack guy was able to execute some things faster than the Live guy, because of the physical buttons, knobs, etc. Even some setup stuff was faster in the OT - assigning FX to slots, assigning LFOs, etc.
That’s what the FM8/Operator vs. Digitone discussion reminded me of.
2 Likes
I think you’re reading a little too far into this. I am by no means making a demand, just saying ‘it would be nice’. I still have one on order.
2 Likes