Oh, I see that now, thanks.
I was thinking that the click sound was part of the start of the new envelope rather than the end of the previous one š¤¦
Iāll have a think about this 
thanks.
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Glad itās clicked now 
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So to avoid clicks, you would need to carefully set the decay of your envelopes.
If we one day have the opportunity to setup a custom default Kit, I will definitely make all amp envelopes with finite decays!
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I do still wonder how it is achieved in other synth designs. I tested with my Novation Summit (it has OSC reset) in mono mode and was not able make it click. They must be designed differently in some way, no idea how. But I do think if it would be possible to improve it somehow for Elektron?
And I still do not know why only the analog machines do it. A digital OSC that is abruptly reset should have the same artifact right?
An answer to this would explain why I can not get my Summit to click, as that has digital FPGA numerically controlled OSCs.
Sadly my PolyBrute does not have wave reset so I can not test there. But I will probably test my Tempest tomorrow and see what happens there. Oh and Pro 3 doesnāt click with OSC reset either.
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The nitty gritty is ultimately in how the descent from the truncated wave is handled. If itās slewed on its path back to zero it will change the nature of that impulse and reduce the frequency content. But in doing that you necessarily introduce a sort of latency to the incoming new noteās onset. Maybe this is no big deal with a synth sound, but in the context of a drum machine it may be better to prioritise timing. So as you canāt consistently predict whatās coming then the reality is that you will get a very fast transient at that transition just ahead of the new note.
If you want to understand how synth X and Y handle it differently, throw two similar sounds into audacity or similar
So the energy of the transient comes from the existing wave being shut down too rapidly, arguably too well for some. Itās okay to micromanage this to taste by muting the source sound ahead of retriggering.
Some other gear may mask this, but as I said originally, this mitigation also has its own cost. And as you see in the analog oscillators there can be a bit of DC offset and a reset wave is not pristine like a modelled numerical representation, so mitigating this properly may simply be trickier.
Itās still not helpful to think of it as a ābugā, itās sounding like it should, given whatās actually happening. Iāve not been explaining this exhaustively either, (iām not able to) but there should still be some useful things to glean from some of it to dispel any ideas that itās something that isnāt already understood.
A more flexible ācompromiseā is to turn off both oscillator reset and amp envelope reset, this approach where the oscillator phase is not reset benefits from a smidge of attack to ease it in, but itās less clicky, but also less predictable, especially if leaning on fm or ringmod etc - but if the ambition is clickless low freq sounds, then it may be your best option as the note isnāt in a rush to define itself
FWIW I have no issue making almost all digital source oscillators click, but strangely they do respond differently (i.e. are mask-able) to their low pass filter, all of which makes me wonder if itās those analog vagaries again at play somehow or a function of the voice topology or filter design
So with careful use of whatās at hand, you can get quiet dubby subs and clicky kicks to suit broad tastes, but your success will be tempered by details like the wave/env/filter profile both pre/post for any given transition
If you need osc reset, then that may require some compromise. Or embrace the click
Iām more curious about understanding the differing responses of the filters, if theyāre even closely conceived
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Interesting, thanks.
I just realised something. When I was not able to get Summit to click I think I realise now why. One of its mono modes cycles through the voices, so that explains why it wasnāt clicking haha, oops.
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Itās easy to forget details when you have too much gear and everything has its own idiosyncrasies (or if youāre just gettinā old like me) - but the old abrupt reconfiguration of a low frequency wave making clicks is more normal than not in my experience
Elektron made strides to appease DN owners bemoaning clicks, so you never know ! But my gut feeling is that this is something to work with/around
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OK, so even after all this conversation (which has been beneficial for me) I still feel there is something not working right (or at least something that could be improved) with the envelopes. I went back to my Syntakt just now to test something.
Please donāt hate me for going back near the start again! 
Going back to my previous claim that if the decay on the synth page (from here I will refer to this as āosc decayā and the main envelope as āamp decayā) was longer than the amp envelope there would be a click. Well I still think this is true.
I just tried setting maximum osc decay (127) and then a really short amp decay (atck 2, hold 16, dec 16). I get the click even when waiting for the amp decay to finish but not waiting long enough for the osc decay to finish. In other words the OSC is still sounding due to the long decay even if the amp decay has finished. So when the envelope opens back up again there is still a residual sound there still from the osc decay. I hope I explained this well enough
Edit: to add to this. It makes no sense for the osc decay to remain open when the amp decay has finished. Amp decay should have hierarchy. Maybe an improvement could be made here. Something like a rule, if amp envelope has finished, shut off osc decay envelope.
But youāre still feeding the (a proportion of) signal to the VCA, itās just shut ā¦ you need to turn off the oscillator - the fact you canāt hear the output through the amp env is irrelevant, the signal is there knocking at the door
I know. But if I turn off the OSC using the decay it changes the overall shape of the sound, which reduces the effectiveness of having a hold stage on the amp envelope. If the amp envelope has finished I see no benefit for the osc decay to still be running, it can only cause issues in the next envelope. Therefore I see an improvement could be made here. That osc decay should be cut off when amp envelope has finished. This way no residual sound can leak through into the new envelope.
Unless maybe I missing a benefit to keeping the osc decay running while it is not audible anyway?
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I wonder if this topic will be subject to a review of sorts (wrt the oscillator being open for business) as you can see here, it can momentarily catch you out when switching machines
Further to that itās quite nuanced in that even when you kill the oscillatorās dedicated decays, the sound does not drop as the machine may not have been triggered yet
The suggestion of linking envs will improve some of those issues where you may see/expect the voice as being silent already and unwittingly create those instantaneous transients
For overlapping notes there may be issues with mitigating this tendency
However it does sound like an idea they could explore to cover your scenario and it may be that the solution for the former and this one can be arrived at together so that the voice slips into a managed āsilentā mode
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I hope they would consider looking at this. I will continue the discussion with support (they didnāt get back to me just yet) and hope it leads somewhere.
Maybe you would be a better person to pursue the idea with them? I believe you already have a good communication channel there right?
Please let me know if there is anything I can do to make things easier. For example, this thread is lengthy and full of confusion (mostly on my part, as I got somewhat sidetracked as to what my original observations were). A new topic with a concise description may be more useful?
Iāve had a few ideas adopted, but itās all about timing and pitching something incontrovertibly good that just slips in - sometimes even those ideas get overlooked - e.g. thereās no way āyetā to live record soundlocks nor quickly access Track Sound selection as per other devices where there are many convenient methodologies presently, typically double tap track - these things amongst others are what matter to me more than extra features - so in answer to your question I have no more sway than the next man, I just take my time to find things which fit in and try to rule out any reasons that may scupper it. Then play the waiting game. New threads raising prominence would soon backfire and be counterproductive, there is the official email channel for feature requests, and an informal channel via the curated FR topics for each device.
This engaged me as it was pitched as a bug which I like to explore so that thereās less false or repeated reports heading to a busy support team - by having an open chat itās more useful.
WRT the issue and ideas for improvements, I noticed that my suggestion to explore avoiding oscillator reset wasnāt developed or picked up by anybody, especially in the context of having no amp reset - so I made a test DVCO sound that anyone can load into 9>11 and then play with the Modifiers set to Retrig (13 & 14 are about right)
Then sneak in and out of the second amp page to explore the effect of AmpENvReset or the benefit of dialling back the currently infinite SYN Decay
Also note how the currently slow envelope affects things (or otherwise)
Donāt mess with the LFO or DVCO mode as they automatically swap between a sin with reset (the clicky phase) and without phase reset (no clicks) - so all this is counter to your opening strategy (and it mainly shows benefits when using the DVCO as a sustaining mono synth)
But notice how clicky it is in all but the settings I put forward earlier on - so, be careful what you wish for - I find that in this situation that dialling OUT the OSC Decay will actually be clicky
Essentially, there are a few tools to use and some may be better in certain circumstances
Thatās not to say that your suggestion which still appears logical wonāt be adopted if you present it clearly, but consider it part of a balancing act with other things where the impact could be on unforeseen use cases (perhaps like in the one attached below where the sound will play through with & without clicks whilst you retrigger the track) ā¦ explore those parameters to see if thereās another way forward for your scenario, or if thereās some issues with your suggestion
For anyone invested in this topic, a simple DVCO patch (drop using latest Transfer) to explore the clicking and what can exacerbate it - load this in a new pattern in T11 and hold 13/14 ā¦ vary params discussed above
KLKSND.stsnd (519 Bytes)
Elektron tends to balance out hand-holding in some implementation (but not all), it does leave you with a greater series of options and opportunities for āinoptimalā results over simpler design patterns.
This leads to more happy accidents but also requires more intentionality in understanding (and accepting) the consequences of sound design in programming.
The ethos does require awareness of some confusing and confounding bits that get polished out in other designs, certainly.
Iād nudge to roll with the tradeoffs and quirks in most every case 
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Yup. I can confirm this is not related only to analog synths. Ive experienced it with digital synth machines also.
nice first post friend
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The Rytm does something similar with its Retrigs or any fast play with long decays too, which frustrated me when I got it first. I later chose to ignore it, more or less.
If I did not dream it, there was a recent OS update that introduced an option to fix this inconsistent clicky business. Yet I donāt remember exactly, and the Rytm is now
gone for a Syntakt.
Also, ala avantronicaās post, have you tried examining the waveform from a recording yet?
Probably easier to visualize the problem over trying to reverse engineer from only the audio.
Itās OK. I figured out the issue in the end. It turned out to be nothing to do with OSC reset (although it lead to a good conversation)
The OSC decay stays running even when the amp envelope has finished and if you start the next amp envelope before the OSC decay stops, you get sound leaking into rhe new envelope causing a click. The click inconsistent as rhe OSC could be anywhere in its phase when the OSC decay is suddenly closed.
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